LGBTQ Rights and Right-wing Gay Bashing

[indy]

Apr 8, 2022 14:39:55 GMT pnwguy said:

Apr 7, 2022 21:30:46 GMT LFC said:

Chicago puts out the welcome mat to companies that don't like being in states that bash gay and trans people for political gain.

"The Big Sort" has been going on for decades, but I suspect we'll see it accelerate, much like climate change.  We'll see educated people, especially more mobile people without children, migrate to ever-expensive urban areas where white collar jobs are.  And we'll see religious, less educated aggrieved whites continue moving to rural areas where they can numerically dominate (and physically intimidate) others.  

I've actually been wondering about this for awhile now and if the opposite might happen or the trend reverse to some degree. My son, for example, is only considering jobs where he can work remotely. His plan is to move to a low cost area (which means somewhere rural most likely and perhaps even outside the US). I have no idea if he is part of a general trend but I think he may be.

[LFC]

Apr 8, 2022 15:44:31 GMT indy said:

Apr 8, 2022 14:39:55 GMT pnwguy said:

"The Big Sort" has been going on for decades, but I suspect we'll see it accelerate, much like climate change.  We'll see educated people, especially more mobile people without children, migrate to ever-expensive urban areas where white collar jobs are.  And we'll see religious, less educated aggrieved whites continue moving to rural areas where they can numerically dominate (and physically intimidate) others.  

I've actually been wondering about this for awhile now and if the opposite might happen or the trend reverse to some degree. My son, for example, is only considering jobs where he can work remotely. His plan is to move to a low cost area (which means somewhere rural most likely and perhaps even outside the US). I have no idea if he is part of a general trend but I think he may be.

I know that the predicted big migration ended up staying very close to the urban areas, something they called "circle migration" as most people wanted to retain access to the cities. A lot who talk about cheap housing don't understand the culture shock they may experience. I worked with a guy who lived in Nebraska for a few eyars. His enormous house was cheap and the area had a low cost of living but he decided to come back East.

Of course as companies continue to figure out how WFH works in their organization everything may change. The last 3 people I know who left my company are all going to remote jobs. The closest one to their new office is 2-1/2 hours away. The other two would require flights. I suspect this will accelerate especially as the generations who didn't grow up on computers retire, which might be all of 10 years.

[Bact PhD]

Apr 8, 2022 16:01:37 GMT LFC said:

Apr 8, 2022 15:44:31 GMT indy said:

I've actually been wondering about this for awhile now and if the opposite might happen or the trend reverse to some degree. My son, for example, is only considering jobs where he can work remotely. His plan is to move to a low cost area (which means somewhere rural most likely and perhaps even outside the US). I have no idea if he is part of a general trend but I think he may be.

I know that the predicted big migration ended up staying very close to the urban areas, something they called "circle migration" as most people wanted to retain access to the cities. A lot who talk about cheap housing don't understand the culture shock they may experience. I worked with a guy who lived in Nebraska for a few eyars. His enormous house was cheap and the area had a low cost of living but he decided to come back East.

Of course as companies continue to figure out how WFH works in their organization everything may change. The last 3 people I know who left my company are all going to remote jobs. The closest one to their new office is 2-1/2 hours away. The other two would require flights. I suspect this will accelerate especially as the generations who didn't grow up on computers retire, which might be all of 10 years.

Re The Big Sort: It’s gonna be interesting to see how things shake out as the Baby Boomers continue to retire. For so many years, Flori-DUH* has been considered a paradise for retirees. Given what’s been going on here the last 10 or so years, I’d say it’s debatable whether that migration continues to that same degree. Depending on the area of the state, the cost of housing isn’t much less than in some Northeastern markets. The domino effect from everyone wanting the so-called tropical paradise (now a boatload of urban sprawl—seriously, I have no desire whatsoever to move back there!!) of South Florida has been impacting the market in the overwhelmingly rural northern part of the state. However, lest one think this area has gotten “more liberal”—HA! The days of my neck of the woods being “Berkeley South” are very nearly, if not completely, over. The old-school lefties are dying off, and many of the South Florida expatriates who come here are those with the bumper stickers “Will the Last One Out Please Bring the [US] Flag?” Those folks are populating the ‘burbs here, and are at least as reactionary as the “native rednecks.” I know of at least one retired couple who came to South FL from MA, stayed over a decade, and decided to go back to MA (not even the “halfback” option of the Carolinas!). They just never got used to the culture, I guess.

*yes, Arizona too, but I can’t speak to the urban/rural divide in that state.

[andydp]

Apr 8, 2022 15:44:31 GMT indy said:

Apr 8, 2022 14:39:55 GMT pnwguy said:

"The Big Sort" has been going on for decades, but I suspect we'll see it accelerate, much like climate change.  We'll see educated people, especially more mobile people without children, migrate to ever-expensive urban areas where white collar jobs are.  And we'll see religious, less educated aggrieved whites continue moving to rural areas where they can numerically dominate (and physically intimidate) others.  

I've actually been wondering about this for awhile now and if the opposite might happen or the trend reverse to some degree. My son, for example, is only considering jobs where he can work remotely. His plan is to move to a low cost area (which means somewhere rural most likely and perhaps even outside the US). I have no idea if he is part of a general trend but I think he may be.

My friend who just retired from DHS, tells me many US Government agencies are seriously thinking of more remote work.  The pandemic has shown you can get just as much done at home as you can in the office.  With Zoom and other similar programs in popular use, actual meetings may wind up being a thing of the past.  I can see a need for a "real" meeting, but don't see it as something that has to happen every week (or more frequently).  Its a new day out there.  I used to joke with the bosses at the USPS coding center.  They could give us a terminal  (there were specialized keys) and tell us to work from XXPM to XXPM,  They can monitor keystrokes and accuracy just as well.  Didn't fly.  I do wonder sometime how they ran the centers during the pandemic with the distancing requirement.

[goldenvalley]

Apr 9, 2022 18:51:15 GMT andydp said:

Apr 8, 2022 15:44:31 GMT indy said:

I've actually been wondering about this for awhile now and if the opposite might happen or the trend reverse to some degree. My son, for example, is only considering jobs where he can work remotely. His plan is to move to a low cost area (which means somewhere rural most likely and perhaps even outside the US). I have no idea if he is part of a general trend but I think he may be.

My friend who just retired from DHS, tells me many US Government agencies are seriously thinking of more remote work.  The pandemic has shown you can get just as much done at home as you can in the office.  With Zoom and other similar programs in popular use, actual meetings may wind up being a thing of the past.  I can see a need for a "real" meeting, but don't see it as something that has to happen every week (or more frequently).  Its a new day out there.  I used to joke with the bosses at the USPS coding center.  They could give us a terminal  (there were specialized keys) and tell us to work from XXPM to XXPM,  They can monitor keystrokes and accuracy just as well.  Didn't fly.  I do wonder sometime how they ran the centers during the pandemic with the distancing requirement.

I wonder what will happen to office real estate prices and rental rates.

[andydp]

Apr 11, 2022 2:20:03 GMT goldenvalley said:

Apr 9, 2022 18:51:15 GMT andydp said:

My friend who just retired from DHS, tells me many US Government agencies are seriously thinking of more remote work.  The pandemic has shown you can get just as much done at home as you can in the office.  With Zoom and other similar programs in popular use, actual meetings may wind up being a thing of the past.  I can see a need for a "real" meeting, but don't see it as something that has to happen every week (or more frequently).  Its a new day out there.  I used to joke with the bosses at the USPS coding center.  They could give us a terminal  (there were specialized keys) and tell us to work from XXPM to XXPM,  They can monitor keystrokes and accuracy just as well.  Didn't fly.  I do wonder sometime how they ran the centers during the pandemic with the distancing requirement.

I wonder what will happen to office real estate prices and rental rates.

I've read they are looking at converting to apartments.  Which makes sense: center city, mass transit, infrastructure already in place.  The only thing missing are supermarkets.  

[goldenvalley]

Apr 11, 2022 13:14:00 GMT andydp said:

Apr 11, 2022 2:20:03 GMT goldenvalley said:

I wonder what will happen to office real estate prices and rental rates.

I've read they are looking at converting to apartments.  Which makes sense: center city, mass transit, infrastructure already in place.  The only thing missing are supermarkets.  

Nice idea.  I suspect building codes for residential space are quite different than for offices, plus you need a lot more plumbing.  How expensive will the conversion be?  

[Bact PhD]

Apr 11, 2022 14:21:13 GMT goldenvalley said:

Apr 11, 2022 13:14:00 GMT andydp said:

I've read they are looking at converting to apartments.  Which makes sense: center city, mass transit, infrastructure already in place.  The only thing missing are supermarkets.  

Nice idea.  I suspect building codes for residential space are quite different than for offices, plus you need a lot more plumbing.  How expensive will the conversion be?  

I remember reading something (maybe in WSJ) about a year or so ago on the subject. The take-away was that owing to some of the very issues GV brought up, such conversions would be impractical in most circumstances.

[LFC]

Texas welfare workers are refusing to be Republican brownshirts who abuse families of trans kids. I guess they just can't come to grips with the fact that in Texas that job entails embracing that the cruelty is the point.

While the attorney general’s office has gone to great lengths to defend the governor’s directive in court, the agency responsible for carrying out the investigations has been roiled by resistance and resignations as employees struggle with ethical questions they’ve never faced before.

More than half a dozen child abuse investigators told The Texas Tribune that they either have resigned or are actively job hunting as a result of the directive.

A spokesperson for DFPS declined to comment on the resignations or answer specific questions, citing pending litigation.

“In all investigations we follow state law to determine if abuse or neglect has occurred, and we will continue to do so,” the department said in a statement.

The employees, most of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect their jobs, said they feel conflicted — unwilling to undertake what they see as discriminatory investigations and critical of the agency’s internal response to requests for guidance, but haunted by what a mass exodus of experienced child abuse investigators would mean for the state’s most vulnerable children.

“Things are already slipping through the cracks. … We will see investigations that get closed where intervention could have occurred,” one supervisor said. “And children will die in Texas.”

[goldenvalley]

Apr 12, 2022 14:19:28 GMT LFC said:

Texas welfare workers are refusing to be Republican brownshirts who abuse families of trans kids. I guess they just can't come to grips with the fact that in Texas that job entails embracing that the cruelty is the point.

While the attorney general’s office has gone to great lengths to defend the governor’s directive in court, the agency responsible for carrying out the investigations has been roiled by resistance and resignations as employees struggle with ethical questions they’ve never faced before.

More than half a dozen child abuse investigators told The Texas Tribune that they either have resigned or are actively job hunting as a result of the directive.

A spokesperson for DFPS declined to comment on the resignations or answer specific questions, citing pending litigation.

“In all investigations we follow state law to determine if abuse or neglect has occurred, and we will continue to do so,” the department said in a statement.

The employees, most of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect their jobs, said they feel conflicted — unwilling to undertake what they see as discriminatory investigations and critical of the agency’s internal response to requests for guidance, but haunted by what a mass exodus of experienced child abuse investigators would mean for the state’s most vulnerable children.

“Things are already slipping through the cracks. … We will see investigations that get closed where intervention could have occurred,” one supervisor said. “And children will die in Texas.”

I wish they stayed in the jobs and ignored the Texas law on transgender stuff.  Nullification by inaction which keeps experienced people in vital jobs.  Could also be called passive aggression.

[AnBr]

Not to mention that they can now be replaced by ones that are all too eager to do the biding of the Republican brownshirts.

[AnBr]

[LFC]

Vox has a good summary of the Republicans' strategy of demonizing LGBTQ people to rile up their base and the more open hatefulness of that base. These are sick, cruel, and anti-democratic people. This subject is an intersection of this thread, the Republican fascism thread, and the sickness of Christian politics thread. It all pulls together into one, big, toxic, political stew, and that's not by accident.

Some of these proposals are more explicit than Florida’s — Tennessee’s proposal seeks to ban books or material that support or promote LGBTQ “issues or lifestyle” altogether — but all offer a window into how social conservatives see opportunities to roll back protections for queer and trans people: score victories in the courts and make the cultural fight more extreme.

Their path to win legal fights looks more promising, with Republican majorities in these statehouses passing these bills on to Republican governors, expecting fights in lower courts, and biding time until a conservative majority on the Supreme Court reviews the challenges, Carl Charles, a senior attorney with the civil rights organization Lambda Legal, said.

Drawing on pandemic-era anger over school closures, mask-wearing, and the specter of critical race theory, state Republicans see an opportunity to rile up their most conservative constituents ahead of primaries, general elections, and a new Supreme Court term.

But what these bills communicate coyly, its supporters in media and politics have been saying out loud for quite some time: The way to win back lost ground in the culture war over LGBTQ people is to cast them as morally corrupt villains — and use schools as a starting point for a bigger cultural shift.

Gays have been a popular target of autocrats for ages. Lately it seems like they're being demonized more frequently and virulently than even Jews, the perpetual favorite target.

[goldenvalley]

Apr 13, 2022 15:49:43 GMT LFC said:

Vox has a good summary of the Republicans' strategy of demonizing LGBTQ people to rile up their base and the more open hatefulness of that base. These are sick, cruel, and anti-democratic people. This subject is an intersection of this thread, the Republican fascism thread, and the sickness of Christian politics thread. It all pulls together into one, big, toxic, political stew, and that's not by accident.

Some of these proposals are more explicit than Florida’s — Tennessee’s proposal seeks to ban books or material that support or promote LGBTQ “issues or lifestyle” altogether — but all offer a window into how social conservatives see opportunities to roll back protections for queer and trans people: score victories in the courts and make the cultural fight more extreme.

Their path to win legal fights looks more promising, with Republican majorities in these statehouses passing these bills on to Republican governors, expecting fights in lower courts, and biding time until a conservative majority on the Supreme Court reviews the challenges, Carl Charles, a senior attorney with the civil rights organization Lambda Legal, said.

Drawing on pandemic-era anger over school closures, mask-wearing, and the specter of critical race theory, state Republicans see an opportunity to rile up their most conservative constituents ahead of primaries, general elections, and a new Supreme Court term.

But what these bills communicate coyly, its supporters in media and politics have been saying out loud for quite some time: The way to win back lost ground in the culture war over LGBTQ people is to cast them as morally corrupt villains — and use schools as a starting point for a bigger cultural shift.

Gays have been a popular target of autocrats for ages. Lately it seems like they're being demonized more frequently and virulently than even Jews, the perpetual favorite target.

Does the elevation of CRT followed by pedophilia and "grooming" mean that the shit stirrers have concluded that Roe v Wade will be dead soon?  That used to be a primary motivator to generate support and $$.  

[andydp]

Here’s a real winner. Sorry for the sparsity of info but I’m on the road home.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oc-man-arrested-for-allegedly-threatening-to-bomb-merriam-webster-offices-over-definition-of-female/ar-AAWwxck?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz&fbclid=IwAR2j-2-WDER1xi6vC28uhAnyb2uvpqK7xa9VfptxvMWEcObeY-fkTxqYzB8

[Bact PhD]

Apr 24, 2022 0:52:17 GMT andydp said:

Here’s a real winner. Sorry for the sparsity of info but I’m on the road home.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oc-man-arrested-for-allegedly-threatening-to-bomb-merriam-webster-offices-over-definition-of-female/ar-AAWwxck?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz&fbclid=IwAR2j-2-WDER1xi6vC28uhAnyb2uvpqK7xa9VfptxvMWEcObeY-fkTxqYzB8

Maybe, just *maybe*, if some of these wannabe TERRORISTS see courtrooms and the inside of prison cells, the fever has a chance of breaking.

Alas, to adapt something I heard eons ago, “One man’s ‘terrorist’ is another man’s ‘holy warrior’.”

[andydp]

Apr 24, 2022 12:55:59 GMT Bact PhD said:

Apr 24, 2022 0:52:17 GMT andydp said:

Here’s a real winner. Sorry for the sparsity of info but I’m on the road home.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oc-man-arrested-for-allegedly-threatening-to-bomb-merriam-webster-offices-over-definition-of-female/ar-AAWwxck?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz&fbclid=IwAR2j-2-WDER1xi6vC28uhAnyb2uvpqK7xa9VfptxvMWEcObeY-fkTxqYzB8

Maybe, just *maybe*, if some of these wannabe TERRORISTS see courtrooms and the inside of prison cells, the fever has a chance of breaking.

Alas, to adapt something I heard eons ago, “One man’s ‘terrorist’ is another man’s ‘holy warrior’.”

Is there a word for a language "luddite" ? (Besides pedant)

[Bact PhD]

Analysis by some at WaPo—have Supreme Emperor and his Orchestra gone too far?

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/23/republicans-lgbt/

It’s at the end of the piece where (some of) the real endgame is revealed (bold mine):

Ralph Reed, the founder of the Faith and Freedom Coalition and a leading conservative strategist, said that social conservatives recognize that marriage equality is the law of the land, though he predicted there will still be fights over gay rights.


He wants Republicans to use the energy around parental rights to push for school choice, a longtime conservative priority.
“The wisest strategy is to use the momentum from this to drive parental rights and school choice,” Reed said. “That’s where this is going, and it has the potential to be a game changer.”

Yup, that Holy Grail of getting mucho tax $$$$ to religious (of course Christian) schools…tanking public education as generations of Americans have known it in the process.

[LFC]

Apr 24, 2022 21:54:41 GMT Bact PhD said:

Yup, that Holy Grail of getting mucho tax $$$$ to religious (of course Christian) schools…tanking public education as generations of Americans have known it in the process.

What was that the Republicans screech about indoctrination?

[goldenvalley]

Apr 25, 2022 16:39:44 GMT LFC said:

Apr 24, 2022 21:54:41 GMT Bact PhD said:

Yup, that Holy Grail of getting mucho tax $$$$ to religious (of course Christian) schools…tanking public education as generations of Americans have known it in the process.

What was that the Republicans screech about indoctrination?

They aren't against all forms of indoctrination.  The decision on who to oppose is based on who is doing the indoctrinating.  "Our indoctrination is just called normal education; theirs is indoctrination".

[pnwguy]

Apr 24, 2022 21:54:41 GMT Bact PhD said:

Yup, that Holy Grail of getting mucho tax $$$$ to religious (of course Christian) schools…tanking public education as generations of Americans have known it in the process.

Just wait until the first "madrassa" asks for public funding for Islamic children.

That would be similar to what would happen if someone starts a gun training camp for Black Lives Matter activists.

[andydp]

Apr 25, 2022 17:56:17 GMT pnwguy said:

Apr 24, 2022 21:54:41 GMT Bact PhD said:

Yup, that Holy Grail of getting mucho tax $$$$ to religious (of course Christian) schools…tanking public education as generations of Americans have known it in the process.

Just wait until the first "madrassa" asks for public funding for Islamic children.

That would be similar to what would happen if someone starts a gun training camp for Black Lives Matter activists.

That situation happened in Mississippi.  They wrote the law thinking only "Christians" would apply. What a surprise to find out the local Mosque wanted to set up a madrassa.  They were reminded of that constitution "thingy".

[Bact PhD]

Apr 25, 2022 18:01:24 GMT andydp said:

Apr 25, 2022 17:56:17 GMT pnwguy said:

Just wait until the first "madrassa" asks for public funding for Islamic children.

That would be similar to what would happen if someone starts a gun training camp for Black Lives Matter activists.

That situation happened in Mississippi.  They wrote the law thinking only "Christians" would apply. What a surprise to find out the local Mosque wanted to set up a madrassa.  They were reminded of that constitution "thingy".

I thought it was Louisiana where the stinkeroo occurred once they realized that funding “religious” schools included those not preaching Christianity, even quoting a state legislator as saying they only intended the $$ to go to Christian schools, and the surprise when the individual realized it doesn’t work that way (ya know, that pesky Establishment Clause). Something similar could have happened in Mississippi, though.

[AnBr]

Apr 25, 2022 16:39:44 GMT LFC said:

What was that the Republicans screech about indoctrination?

More projection.

[LFC]

WTF now? The demonization of LGBTQ people reall does just fold right into the fascism thread.

Missouri's Grain Valley Schools school board has banned teachers from displaying popular "Safe Space for All" stickers on or in their classrooms, mysteriously citing "a concern." The stickers are used nationwide to enable LGBTQ students, and all students, to know they have a safe space to be themselves without fear of reprisal from staff or students.

The board left it to schools to notify parents, which they did on Monday via email, KSHB reports. The notice came after last Thursday's board meeting, but the Safe Space sticker ban was not on the agenda. The board claims it initiated the ban because all classrooms should be safe spaces for everyone.

In a move similar to the "All Lives Matter" retort to the Back Lives Matter movement, the school board wrote to parents:

“Our goal is for every classroom to be a safe place for all students, not just in classrooms where teachers choose to display a particular sign,"

“We remain committed to providing professional development to help our staff create a safe, collaborative, and inclusive environment, consistent with our core beliefs, where each student feels a sense of belonging. The use of these cards, however, is determined to not be an appropriate step at this time.”

The board did not state what steps it is taking to secure that goal – or, in fact if it has any plans to ensure the safety of LGBTQ students.