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Post by LFC on Apr 23, 2021 16:32:48 GMT
This article is from late 2019 so the cars involved were actually earlier models with some kinks still being ironed out. Still it shows the lasting power and lower maintenance costs associated with electric vehicles. This example is a small fleet that is keeping their Teslas for well beyond the normal 100K turnover point of most traditional fleet vehicles.
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pnwguy
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,447
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Post by pnwguy on Apr 23, 2021 17:14:24 GMT
The movement to electric vehicles will threaten a lot of existing businesses, from oil change places like Jiffy Lube, to independent automotive shops, to the tens of thousands of fuel/convenience stores. Even our beloved Wawa will have their revenue models challenged.
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Post by LFC on Apr 23, 2021 17:41:40 GMT
The movement to electric vehicles will threaten a lot of existing businesses, from oil change places like Jiffy Lube, to independent automotive shops, to the tens of thousands of fuel/convenience stores. Even our beloved Wawa will have their revenue models challenged. Knowing Wawa and their business acumen I suspect they'll have fast charging stations there well before most places. (Oops. One quick Google search and it turns out I'm years behind on the "prediction.")
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andydp
Tenured Full Professor
Posts: 3,010
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Post by andydp on Apr 23, 2021 17:44:34 GMT
The movement to electric vehicles will threaten a lot of existing businesses, from oil change places like Jiffy Lube, to independent automotive shops, to the tens of thousands of fuel/convenience stores. Even our beloved Wawa will have their revenue models challenged. Another factor: "updating" vehicles will probably be as easy as an overnight software update. More efficient ways to use battery power, better interfaces. All those touch screens have a purpose: you don't need to redesign anything other than the interfaces the networks are already there.
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pnwguy
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,447
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Post by pnwguy on Apr 23, 2021 18:01:14 GMT
Another factor: "updating" vehicles will probably be as easy as an overnight software update. More efficient ways to use battery power, better interfaces. All those touch screens have a purpose: you don't need to redesign anything other than the interfaces the networks are already there. Yes, it's all software (I work for a software company). But then again, look at Boeing's issue with the 737 MAX.
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Post by LFC on May 3, 2021 21:10:00 GMT
This is good ... I guess. It's a bit scary it's needed in the first place.
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Post by LFC on May 11, 2021 12:54:43 GMT
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Post by LFC on May 15, 2021 14:22:18 GMT
This is more battery technology but obviously electric vehicles would be a major industry impacted if this works even close to as well as they say. They're claiming small batteries will be rolled out in less than a year. Fingers crossed.
This.
And also this.
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AnBr
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,819
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Post by AnBr on May 15, 2021 14:46:08 GMT
What about the lifespan of these cells?
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Post by LFC on May 15, 2021 16:29:48 GMT
What about the lifespan of these cells? I'll be interested to hear. I found a few things that seem to say it's been a known problem with this technology though there was a Cornell article on them having overcome it somehow.
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pg
Grad Student
Posts: 89
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Post by pg on May 17, 2021 21:47:02 GMT
Hey- I'm pretty arrogant at having gotten into EVs- fairly new adopter- 5 years ago. Mr. discovered that I'd dictated wiring that can take all chargers, and then was determined to try it. No, I don't drive a Tesla-yet. I rock the ugliest car you've ever seen- a BMW i3-EXT. PERFECT urban assault vehicle, in that I can beat anybody off the line- including precious Teslas. Been taken on by a Ferrari or two. I just smile. Shoot, kids, by the time your engine revs I'll be gone and into the lane I want. Yes- maintenance and updates is all about software. Sometimes, I get slightly irritated with my screen, telling me this thing or that. But not hard to live with. VERY easy, to bypass the gas stations, even easier to wave bye-bye to service stations. Batteries? There have been some instances with fire, but not my car. YES. I love the braking system- or shall we say non-braking system- lift the foot power up- that powers you as you go. I like it. In my city (ATX) we have some of the newest models of Tesla- smaller, still sexy but much cheaper- that wander around, showing off. Wouldn't have anything to do with the new Tesla plant being built here, would it HA! Elon Musk is crazy, but not stupid. Look at the Tesla infrastructure at least West, already in place. Not bad, and more to come. BIG secret, that Mr. Musk doesn't want you to know-- Teslas aren't so special that they can't be charged at a regular electric charge station. Why else do I see Teslas, at my local markets, charging up at a regular station? He's just busy cornering the market, and selling some BS. Get it at the home- a pad, a wall station? You're branded. That's the way it rolls. But the truth is, I have enough power to take your sweet Tesla on. Why else would a neighbor have asked me if they could charge at my house? LOL. They paid $5, which is much less than it cost me... Love the rich kids! Technology? It can go wonky, and that can be problematic. Last time I looked at Tesla, they have almost no real plan, except for their fairly thin "road service agreement". Like Google Fiber and all the rest, they talk a big game but are having a hard time backing it up. If mine gets odd- if I get a message that I don't get? BOOM. Push the button. Here they are, ready to save the day. I don't care. It's like flip phones- remember when it was all the rage? At some point, maybe something else prevails. But for now, this is our near future.
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Post by Bact PhD on May 18, 2021 2:44:29 GMT
This is timely! We will be expanding the Family Fleet once Dear Son gets his full license this summer. As I’ve been scrolling this last little while, Chem PhD has been investigating the possibility of an electric vehicle, maybe a crossover SUV type (he wants to be able to haul yard tools, saws, and logs between here and a friend’s place in the boonies). Dear Son would then drive Chem PhD’s current ride, a 2013 mid-size sedan.
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Post by LFC on May 18, 2021 13:42:01 GMT
Hey- I'm pretty arrogant at having gotten into EVs- fairly new adopter- 5 years ago. Mr. discovered that I'd dictated wiring that can take all chargers, and then was determined to try it. We've got a new garage going up. It will be ready to go with a 220V 50A dedicated circuit in the electric panel. I don't know when we'll end up with an electric car but we want to be prepared. Interestingly our township is a bit stuck in the past. They asked (they can't mandate) that we limit our panel to a 60A service because they don't want a commercial business being opened in our garage due to our rural setting. I have no problem with that limit ... PLUS the 50A for an electric car. Time to join the 2020s, gang. Not really a big secret since they tell you right up front that you can charge a Tesla anywhere, even at 110V, and they sell adapters for just about any EV charging station out there. Sounds more like the cheap kids who don't want to pay to charge up at a station and don't want to install sufficient charging at their home. Or unprepared kids with homes that aren't wired to handle the 220V circuit needed for the best charging.
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Post by LFC on May 18, 2021 15:13:52 GMT
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Post by LFC on May 18, 2021 15:36:35 GMT
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Post by LFC on May 18, 2021 15:39:47 GMT
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pg
Grad Student
Posts: 89
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Post by pg on May 18, 2021 20:03:01 GMT
We've got a new garage going up. It will be ready to go with a 220V 50A dedicated circuit in the electric panel. I don't know when we'll end up with an electric car but we want to be prepared. Interestingly our township is a bit stuck in the past. They asked (they can't mandate) that we limit our panel to a 60A service because they don't want a commercial business being opened in our garage due to our rural setting. I have no problem with that limit ... PLUS the 50A for an electric car. Time to join the 2020s, gang. Might want to argue your way/see your way into at least 240V. I have enough voltage to easily get into 340V I'm no electrician, but had to look into the future. I live in an urban area with (at the time) strict rules as to how much you could put into a residential wiring plan. 110V is fine, as long as you have a lot of time to charge. Might be changing under my feet, as I speak. So grain of salt. As far as the rest- I'm talking about marketing, for the Tesla pads/home stations. What Tesla says and what they sell are two entirely different things. Cheap kids? Eh? I see $85K+ Tesla owners who are renters. Facepalm, for me. But they are either uninterested in upgrading a property they don't own or their landlords are short-sighted and can't bring themselves to think about upgrading for their own monetary benefit. Almost all new condo/apartment complexes, even older office spaces are equipped, but it's typically limited space and what does one do, if the stations are all taken and you need it now? Then you take your chances, with a public charger. Another observation/anecdote: People treat those things very roughly. As such, they often are out-of-whack, out of service. Many won't even use them, even for a cheap monthly subscription. Not a perfect system, in any way. .
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Post by LFC on May 18, 2021 20:45:30 GMT
Might want to argue your way/see your way into at least 240V. I have enough voltage to easily get into 340V I'm no electrician, but had to look into the future. I'll have a the full 220V coming to my home available. (You might see U.S. voltage referred to as 110/220 or 120/240. It's all the same thing.) I don't think you've got 340V unless you have some crazy kind of charging voltage and you installed a rather exotic piece of electrical equipment. Using 110V is definitely the slow way to go. I don't blame Tesla for its approach, at least not at the beginning. They started pushing a network of them when nobody else was really providing the charging stations. That's finally changing but you have to give them credit for pushing the ball forward. I suspect the Tesla-only charging stations will become a thing of the past fairly soon.
I would like to see Tesla and other car companies push for worldwide standards so that all manufacturers could use for free but none of them seem to be all that interested. (Welcome to market solutions. Grrrrr.) The home charging stations are certainly a product that Tesla sells but then I really don't see them behaving any differently than any other car company. A quick search shows that Ford and BMW both sell their own home charging stations as well. Somewhere, maybe in something posted here, I read that the worst situation is in cities where so many people park on the street because they don't have garages. That's a shame because the short distances, stop and go driving, and drop in emissions make EVs great for cities. I suspect always needing 20 minutes to charge is going to slow adoption there ... badly.
In the suburbs and rural areas I suspect "Do you have a charging station?" will become an ever increasing questions when people are buying real estate.
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Post by LFC on May 18, 2021 20:47:45 GMT
I did a little digging on charging. This article summarized it pretty well. You can have a Level 1 or Level 2 charger at home. Level 3 charging requires more voltage and/or amps than just about any residential property can provide.
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Post by goldenvalley on May 19, 2021 16:53:00 GMT
Somewhere, maybe in something posted here, I read that the worst situation is in cities where so many people park on the street because they don't have garages. That's a shame because the short distances, stop and go driving, and drop in emissions make EVs great for cities. I suspect always needing 20 minutes to charge is going to slow adoption there ... badly.
In the suburbs and rural areas I suspect "Do you have a charging station?" will become an ever increasing questions when people are buying real estate.
The city question makes me realize that, electric or not, cars are a problem in cities. Mass transit is needed so that the need for cars and parking spaces for cars is reduced. In CA with the housing shortage some are coming to the conclusion that zoning for cars is part of what prevents adequate and affordable housing from being built. In the meantime there is a bill in the CA legislature now requiring landlords to install charging stations in certain sized multi family structures. The opponents have taken to the airwaves already to announce that this will cost everyone who rents and will increase the prices of absolutely everything anyone would want to buy. The bill is nowhere near being passed.
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Post by LFC on May 19, 2021 18:42:18 GMT
In the meantime there is a bill in the CA legislature now requiring landlords to install charging stations in certain sized multi family structures. The opponents have taken to the airwaves already to announce that this will cost everyone who rents and will increase the prices of absolutely everything anyone would want to buy. The bill is nowhere near being passed.
They are correct, it will cost everyone who rents. Why? Despite the fact that a home charging station can be installed for somewhere in the range of $500-$2,000 it's an awesome excuse to raise rents $150/month forever. So rents will go up but only because landlords will be screwing their tenants.
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Post by LFC on May 20, 2021 15:39:39 GMT
More and more it seems like a range of 200 miles is becoming the absolute bottom that will be acceptable for an electric vehicle and 300 miles seems to be the up and coming measuring stick. Tesla is way out in front on that published metric with the top 4 EVs by range but Edmund's did independent testing and disputes that, though with some later caveats. Looking at the list you wonder why MINI even bothered to put out a car with a published range of just 110 miles (Edmund's got 150 out of it). It sounds like it's 5-10 years behind the curve.
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Post by LFC on May 20, 2021 15:44:57 GMT
Car & Driver did range tests as well and compared them to the EPA numbers. None of the vehicles they tested met the EPA figure. They also explain the huge caveats with actual range.
Here are their range results:
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Post by LFC on May 26, 2021 18:31:57 GMT
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Post by LFC on May 26, 2021 21:05:34 GMT
Things are less than rosy for a number of the upstart EV companies hoping to get in before the big boys and become the next Tesla.
Nikola Motors hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire either as they continue to try to get past fraud accusations.
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