pnwguy
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,447
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Post by pnwguy on Apr 12, 2022 14:59:21 GMT
It seems that many EV companies really are staying at the high end for now.
I guess that's pretty much the model Tesla followed as well with less expensive, and likely lower margin, models coming later.
Of course, Henry Ford took the approach of making affordable vehicles fairly early with the Model T, to grab market share and help provide the demand for infrastructure.
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Post by goldenvalley on Apr 12, 2022 15:07:59 GMT
It seems that many EV companies really are staying at the high end for now.
I guess that's pretty much the model Tesla followed as well with less expensive, and likely lower margin, models coming later.
I guess they're trying for an efficient return on investment by selling fewer cars at higher prices. We'll never wean people off of gas powered vehicles if EVs are just the play things of the well off.
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AnBr
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,819
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Post by AnBr on Apr 12, 2022 22:55:20 GMT
I guess they're trying for an efficient return on investment by selling fewer cars at higher prices. We'll never wean people off of gas powered vehicles if EVs are just the play things of the well off. This is something that I have been thinking about. Somehow we need to put EVs in the hands of those with very modest means if we want to stop the use of fossil fuels. Waiting for the normal progression from new to used to affordable for working poor will take too long, especially if EVs have a longer usable lifespan. Of course good mass transit could help, but try and get that passed by today's government on all levels.
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Post by goldenvalley on Apr 12, 2022 23:04:01 GMT
I guess they're trying for an efficient return on investment by selling fewer cars at higher prices. We'll never wean people off of gas powered vehicles if EVs are just the play things of the well off. Of course good mass transit could help, but try and get that passed by today's government on all levels. And to get people to use it. Americans, except for those in the densely urban areas, will not want to leave their cars in the garage. They are too accustomed to getting and going whenever they want. Consulting subway/train/trolley/bus schedules and having to walk from a stop to their ultimate destination will be seen as a hassle and a restriction on their FREEDOM! My #2 kid lived in Europe for a brief time, in urban areas. Having a car was far more expensive and troublesome than taking the trolley or underground (or bike in one city). Now he complains about the lack of adequate mass transit in the US.
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Post by Bact PhD on Apr 13, 2022 1:12:17 GMT
Of course good mass transit could help, but try and get that passed by today's government on all levels. And to get people to use it. Americans, except for those in the densely urban areas, will not want to leave their cars in the garage. They are too accustomed to getting and going whenever they want. Consulting subway/train/trolley/bus schedules and having to walk from a stop to their ultimate destination will be seen as a hassle and a restriction on their FREEDOM! My #2 kid lived in Europe for a brief time, in urban areas. Having a car was far more expensive and troublesome than taking the trolley or underground (or bike in one city). Now he complains about the lack of adequate mass transit in the US. One of my peeves about the lack of mass transit is the lack of realistic options for intermediate-distance travel (200-450 miles). Outside of the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak service genuinely SUCKS in terms of scheduling (yes, Dear Daughter & I have both used it in this manner, so my opinion is based on first-hand experience). Greyhound is way too S-L-O-W to be useful to many folks. Short flights on "puddle jumpers" tend to be expensive, not necessarily convenient, and may not be any better in terms of the CO2 output.
Interestingly, though, there are some "niche" operators in this arena. When I first moved to my current city (a college town) in the mid-'90s, there were two companies that provided convenient and direct bus service from here to Miami, including a handful of intermediate stops between (I believe) Port St. Lucie and the terminus in the southern part of Miami-Dade County. There were several convenient departure times from here on Friday afternoon/evening and corresponding departure times from Miami on Sunday afternoon/evening. Both companies seemed to have robust ridership while providing what seemed to be decent service (and keeping a couple of hundred cars off the Turnpike most weekends!). Had I been childless when I moved here, I might well have taken advantage of the service for the occasional trip to see the family, rather than putting the wear and tear on myself and the car! I haven't made but 1 or 2 trips to South FL in the last 9 years, so I haven't seen the buses, and had to Google whether either operator was still in business. At least one of them is; I can't recall the name of the other one.
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Post by LFC on Apr 14, 2022 21:39:49 GMT
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Post by LFC on Apr 25, 2022 16:53:49 GMT
Hey, andydp. Time to set aside a bit of cash. I'm pretty sure this came up before but now it's official.
The article has this link from earlier (obviously before Biden was president) but updated last April.
Chevy doesn't build it which doesn't shock me. I think they've got a ton of catching up and they aren't necessarily known for their ability to spin up on things.
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andydp
Tenured Full Professor
Posts: 3,010
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Post by andydp on Apr 25, 2022 17:59:01 GMT
Rumors are flying hot and heavy: 2023. Meanwhile in the land of reality: new tires, State Inspection, four wheel alignment, oil change. Estimated cost: about $ 2k. (<< This is about $500 less than my brand new 1971 spitfire cost me in 1972: $2,500) My usual inspection and oil change cost about $ 120.
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Post by LFC on Apr 25, 2022 19:42:43 GMT
Meanwhile in the land of reality: new tires, State Inspection, four wheel alignment, oil change. Estimated cost: about $ 2k. (<< This is about $500 less than my brand new 1971 spitfire cost me in 1972: $2,500) My usual inspection and oil change cost about $ 120. If they don't seriously limit the top-end then I can't imagine what a set of tires would cost. I know I've seen a couple of articles on super cars in the past with tires going for up to $5,000 apiece. Plus screeching out in an EV and rocketing towards 200mph for a mile or so must take off a lot of tread.
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Post by LFC on Jun 2, 2022 20:05:05 GMT
An ammonia powered tractor? It actually makes sense since ammonia is used for fertilizer so the delivery infrastructure already exists for American farms.
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Post by LFC on Jun 2, 2022 20:07:20 GMT
Another article popped up on the shift to EVs being used by automakers as an excuse to shift the dealer model.
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Post by LFC on Jun 8, 2022 13:41:08 GMT
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andydp
Tenured Full Professor
Posts: 3,010
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Post by andydp on Jun 8, 2022 13:58:56 GMT
Another article popped up on the shift to EVs being used by automakers as an excuse to shift the dealer model. Because... You rip people off to make up any shortfall from sales of the vehicle. My Sonata was up for the 50K mile checkup. The selling dealer quoted me $500 for: an oil change, filter change and fuel additive. The rest of the service was all check, inspect, etc. There were only THREE things that actually cost money. The rest is what a competent service station would do as a matter of course during an oil change. The mechanic we go to quoted me about $40 the other Sonata dealer quoted the cost of the oil change and filter install.
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Post by LFC on Jun 8, 2022 14:01:57 GMT
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Post by LFC on Jul 7, 2022 18:06:26 GMT
Volkswagen is starting to build a new huge battery factory. It sounds like they're thinking ahead by implementing standardization of both future factories and battery format.
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pnwguy
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,447
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Post by pnwguy on Jul 7, 2022 18:17:35 GMT
One of the smart thinks Musk did with Tesla when they began was take over a very large building that had been the NUMMI auto plant in Fremont, CA, a joint venture between Toyota and GM. The infrastructure for overhead cranes, material flow, supply truck docks, steel panel stamping, rail sidings, finished product parking space, and so on are fairly specific to auto makers. I imagine a lot of these other EV catch up firms were starting from scratch, which takes a lot of time from both supply logistics and permitting cycles.
At least the established auto-makers have good infrastructure and supply logistics in place, except for the battery suppliers.
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Post by LFC on Jul 8, 2022 17:29:41 GMT
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Post by LFC on Jul 18, 2022 19:45:53 GMT
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Post by LFC on Jul 18, 2022 19:50:51 GMT
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Post by LFC on Aug 1, 2022 21:35:54 GMT
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Post by LFC on Aug 1, 2022 21:38:35 GMT
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Post by LFC on Aug 17, 2022 21:42:19 GMT
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AnBr
Associate Professor
Posts: 1,819
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Post by AnBr on Aug 17, 2022 22:06:12 GMT
What is the lowest price on any new EV that you have seen?
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Post by LFC on Aug 18, 2022 13:41:44 GMT
What is the lowest price on any new EV that you have seen? There's been a lot of announcements and such but any that I would consider "usable", i.e. with a range over 200 miles, are running at least $35K. Here's an article showing the Chevy Bolt at about $27,000. Of course I've never remotely considered buying a GM product.
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Post by LFC on Aug 18, 2022 20:31:24 GMT
Here's the next muscle car from Dodge. It's electric and they found a way to have it make noise and kinda' be able to justify it. That just feels a bit pathetic (OK, more than a bit pathetic) but you have to give your customers what they want.
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