NATO - Changes & Reactions

[LFC]

This may end up being a continuing thread now that Russia has scared the livin' shit out of multiple nations. Remember the right-wing defense of Russia concerning the "threat" on their border? Clearly there's not a shred of that left now that Putin has unilaterally decided to be the threat.

Sweden and Finland are looking to join NATO. Who can blame them?

One thing Vladimir Putin likely didn’t bank on after sending his forces to invade Ukraine was that it would push Finland and Sweden to join NATO. But the two Nordic nations may now be set to join the Western bloc by summer, according to the Times of London, which called it a “massive strategic blunder” on the Russian president’s part. Several U.S. officials said the expansion from 30 to 32 countries had been “a topic of conversation and multiple sessions” during which reps from Sweden and Finland were present. Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said it was time for Finland to change its neutral stance. “Russia is not the neighbor we thought it was,” she said, adding the decision to join in June had been made “thoroughly but quickly.” Sweden is expected to follow shortly after Finland, pending a security review. Membership would mean that the alliance would protect the nations against a Russian incursion.

[LFC]

Finland continues moving closer.

Finland inched closer to joining NATO on Wednesday after its major parliamentary groups expressed support for some form of a military alliance as a response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The Finnish Parliament on Wednesday began debating the possibility of Finland, which shares a long border with Russia, joining NATO. read more

Prime Minister Sanna Marin's Social Democrats stopped short of mentioning NATO in their addresses but nevertheless voiced support for an idea of a military alliance.

"It is evident that Russia's actions have brought Finland several steps closer to military alignment being necessary," Social Democrat group leader Antti Lindtman told fellow parliament members.

Finland is a close partner with NATO, but has maintained a militarily non-aligned status. Now, however, its defence and security needed strengthening, and a decision on whether to apply for NATO membership could be taken within weeks, Marin has said.

[LFC]

Sweden and Finland agree to request NATO membership simultaneously. That's a serious political statement about Russia and my guess is that they've had to endure a lot of bullying, shoving, and gamesmanship for years.

Sweden and Finland have agreed to submit simultaneous membership applications to the US-led Nato alliance as early as the middle of next month, Nordic media have reported.

The Finnish daily Iltalehti said on Monday that Stockholm had “suggested the two countries indicate their willingness to join” on the same day, and that Helsinki had agreed “as long as the Swedish government has made its decision”.

The Swedish newspaper Expressen cited government sources as confirming the report. The two countries’ prime ministers said this month they were deliberating the question, arguing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had changed Europe’s “whole security landscape” and “dramatically shaped mindsets” in the Nordic region.

Finland’s prime minister, Sanna Marin, said then that her country, which shares a 1,300km (810 mile) border with Russia, would decide whether to apply to join the alliance “quite fast, in weeks not months”, despite the risk of infuriating Moscow.

Her Swedish counterpart, Magdalena Andersson, said Sweden had to be “prepared for all kinds of actions from Russia” and that “everything had changed” when Moscow attacked Ukraine. Russia has repeatedly warned both countries against the move.

[goldenvalley]

Sadly, I think this news will make Putin dig in harder on Ukraine...seeking to destroy it as a country so it can never contemplate joining NATO.  How many mercenaries can he buy with the dead oligarchs money?

[LFC]

Apr 25, 2022 18:08:33 GMT goldenvalley said:

Sadly, I think this news will make Putin dig in harder on Ukraine...seeking to destroy it as a country so it can never contemplate joining NATO.  How many mercenaries can he buy with the dead oligarchs money?

I think it will definitely piss him off. I don't think it will make him dig in harder. He's invested virtually all of his political capital in his abilities as a strongman and he desperately needs a "win" he can secure, even if it's scaled back to a tiny fraction of his goal to overthrow the Ukrainian government and installing a puppet.

[LFC]

It appears that Finland has preparing its entire society for an attack by Russia for years.

If the worst fears of Europe are realised and the conflict in Ukraine spreads across the continent to other neighbours of Russia, then Finland will be ready.

It has supplies. At least six months of all major fuels and grains sit in strategic stockpiles, while pharmaceutical companies are obliged to have 3-10 months’ worth of all imported drugs on hand.

It has civilian defences. All buildings above a certain size have to have their own bomb shelters, and the rest of the population can use underground car parks, ice rinks, and swimming pools which stand ready to be converted into evacuation centres.

And it has fighters. Almost a third of the adult population of the Nordic country is a reservist, meaning Finland can draw on one of the biggest militaries relative to its size in Europe.

“We have prepared our society, and have been training for this situation ever since the second world war,” says Tytti Tuppurainen, Finland’s EU minister. After spending eight decades living first in the shadow of the Soviet Union and now Russia, the threat of war in Europe “has not hit us as a surprise”.

The improvised “total defence” strategy that has defined Ukraine’s dogged defence against Russia’s invasion, with newly-weds and shopkeepers reportedly taking up arms, has captivated people around the world.

But what Finland calls its strategy of “comprehensive security” offers an example of how countries can create rigorous, society-wide systems to protect themselves ahead of time — planning not just for a potential invasion, but also for natural disasters or cyber attacks or a pandemic.

Finland has a wartime troop strength of about 280,000 people while in total it has 900,000 trained as reservists. It carried on with conscription for all male school-leavers even after the end of the cold war, when many countries in Europe stopped, and Helsinki has maintained strong defence spending even as others cut in the 1990s and 2000s.

The Ukraine invasion and subsequent rape and slaughter of civilians appears to have been the lever that really moved the country towards joining NATO. Someplace I saw two polls quoted. One showed 59% approval and the other 68% approval. Take into account some number of undecideds (I can't remember the numbers) and the disapproval numbers get fairly small.

For the first time in its history, a majority of Finns now support applying for Nato membership.

Putin wanted to scare the shit out of the countries near his border. Mission accomplished, moron.

[LFC]

Finland is clearly scared of what they're seeing and their President and PM are both calling for joining NATO "without delay."

Finland’s leaders said Thursday they’re in favor of rapidly applying for NATO membership, paving the way for a historic expansion of the alliance that could deal a serious blow to Russia as its military struggles with its war in Ukraine.

The dramatic move by Finland was announced by President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin. It means that Finland is all but certain to join NATO, though a few steps remain before the application process can begin. Neighboring Sweden is expected to decide on joining NATO in coming days.

“NATO membership would strengthen Finland’s security. As a member of NATO, Finland would strengthen the entire defence alliance,” Niinisto and Marin said in a joint statement.

“Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay,” they said. “We hope that the national steps still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days.”

Russia, being Russia, is threatening to do more of the same things that already scared Finland into deciding to join NATO. Putin is a one-trick pony of all threats all the time, except when he actually decides to move beyond threats and kill people. No wonder they're scared

“Finland joining NATO is a radical change in the country’s foreign policy,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement Thursday. “Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop threats to its national security arising.”

From the first link somebody finally stood up and said the obvious.

During a joint news conference with Johnson and Niinisto in Helsinki, the Finnish head of state said Moscow could only blame itself should his nation of 5.5 million people become a NATO member.

“You (Russia) caused this. Look at the mirror,” Niinisto said pointedly Wednesday.

When you look at the list of Russian occupied territories (not counting Chechnya which they brutally crushed) and add in the current brutal assault on Ukraine, it's awfully tough to make the case that Russia is being intimidated. Unless, of course, self-preservation by a nation they want is considered a form of intimidation.

Transnistria (since 1992)
Abkhazia (since 1992)
South Ossetia (since 2008)
Crimea (since 2014)
Luhansk People's Republic (since 2014)
Donetsk People's Republic (since 2014)

[goldenvalley]

May 12, 2022 14:00:59 GMT LFC said:

Finland is clearly scared of what they're seeing and their President and PM are both calling for joining NATO "without delay."

Finland’s leaders said Thursday they’re in favor of rapidly applying for NATO membership, paving the way for a historic expansion of the alliance that could deal a serious blow to Russia as its military struggles with its war in Ukraine.

The dramatic move by Finland was announced by President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin. It means that Finland is all but certain to join NATO, though a few steps remain before the application process can begin. Neighboring Sweden is expected to decide on joining NATO in coming days.

“NATO membership would strengthen Finland’s security. As a member of NATO, Finland would strengthen the entire defence alliance,” Niinisto and Marin said in a joint statement.

“Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay,” they said. “We hope that the national steps still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days.”

Russia, being Russia, is threatening to do more of the same things that already scared Finland into deciding to join NATO. Putin is a one-trick pony of all threats all the time, except when he actually decides to move beyond threats and kill people. No wonder they're scared

“Finland joining NATO is a radical change in the country’s foreign policy,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement Thursday. “Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop threats to its national security arising.”

From the first link somebody finally stood up and said the obvious.

During a joint news conference with Johnson and Niinisto in Helsinki, the Finnish head of state said Moscow could only blame itself should his nation of 5.5 million people become a NATO member.

“You (Russia) caused this. Look at the mirror,” Niinisto said pointedly Wednesday.

When you look at the list of Russian occupied territories (not counting Chechnya which they brutally crushed) and add in the current brutal assault on Ukraine, it's awfully tough to make the case that Russia is being intimidated. Unless, of course, self-preservation by a nation they want is considered a form of intimidation.

Transnistria (since 1992)
Abkhazia (since 1992)
South Ossetia (since 2008)
Crimea (since 2014)
Luhansk People's Republic (since 2014)
Donetsk People's Republic (since 2014)

I wonder what Sweden is thinking.  If Finland is in NATO maybe it will be seen as adequate barrier between Russia and Sweden so Sweden will just sit tight?

[LFC]

Putin's latest ploy is to say he doesn't care if Finland and Sweden join NATO. I guess he's hoping it will slow their urgency. I doubt it. Or maybe he's just desperate to save face.

President Vladimir Putin said Finland and Sweden's entry into NATO will not create a threat to Russia, but the "expansion of military infrastructure into this territory will certainly cause our response."

"As for the expansion of NATO, including through new members of the alliance which are Finland, Sweden — Russia has no problems with these states. Therefore, in this sense, expansion at the expense of these countries does not pose a direct threat to Russia," Putin said while speaking at the summit of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) in Moscow on Monday.

[LFC]

Some NATO nations are already announcing their approval of Finland and Sweden joining.

Denmark, Iceland, and Norway

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania

And then there's Turkey. F***ing Erdoğan.

[goldenvalley]

May 16, 2022 18:09:14 GMT LFC said:

Some NATO nations are already announcing their approval of Finland and Sweden joining.

Denmark, Iceland, and Norway

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania

And then there's Turkey. F***ing Erdoğan.

I've been expecting Erdogan to pull Turkey out of NATO.  

[jackd]

What would be his purpose in pulling out? I doubt he wants to partner with Russia.

[goldenvalley]

May 16, 2022 23:35:42 GMT jackd said:

What would be his purpose in pulling out? I doubt he wants to partner with Russia.

Just to not be part of this alliance since the West is so toxic. 

[LFC]

Updates are being made to the NATO Strategic Concept.

2/ The #NATO Strategic Concept is designed to describe how NATO and its constituent nations will respond to the challenges, opportunities and threats to their security and defence. The development of the new version was an outcome of the 2021 NATO Summit:

2021 NATO Summit
www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/184620.htm

3/ This is the first update of the NATO Strategic Concept since 2010. The NATO website has a pretty cool summary of all previous strategic concepts, and the rationales for the development of each, at its website.

This.

7/ Part 2: Strategic Environment:
- Euro-Atlantic area “not at peace”.
- Authoritarian actors challenge interests, values & democracy.
- Russia the most significant & direct threat to security

[LFC]

Congratulations, Vlad. You've accelerated Ukraine's desired to completely decouple from Russia and instead become a full integrated European nation. We already knew they were looking at EU membership. Now they're preparing to request NATO membership, likely once the dust settles.

[LFC]

Some clear-eyed thinking on the history of former Soviet nations joining NATO. Europe needs to look out for Europe.

Ben Hodges
@general_ben

Dear @alfreddezayas, the real question is why did most former Soviet Republics and Warsaw Pact nations ask to join NATO at their first opportunity...because they knew Russia and what would happen if they weren't in NATO. You can keep your Kremlin talking point.

Alfred de Zayas
@alfreddezayas

Stoltenberg should accept that NATO made a mistake by expanding to the very frontiers of Russia, and that such expansion constituted a threat to international peace and security within the meaning of article 39 of the UN Charter.

It's "interesting" how this guy is worried about going up to "the very frontiers of Russia" but absolute Russian control of those nations wasn't going up to "the very frontiers of Western Europe." I guess he only scans left to right on a map. I imagine Western Europe has no interest at watching Soviet / Russian troops and bases in Poland, Hungary, Romania, etc.

[LFC]

Mission accomplished, Mr. Evil Genius.

Mïnna Ålander 🌻
@minna_alander
Stian Jenssen, head of NATO GenSec private office, at @nupinytt
Military Power Seminar:

With 28 ratifications, Finland & Sweden are already effectively NATO members and have security guarantees. The important decision was taken in Madrid and the rest is only a matter of time.

One reply.

Christian Kaettlitz
@aeasegypt

Translation: Majority of NATO members are basically ignoring the power trips of Turkey and Hungary.

Good.

[LFC]

As part of NATO, Germany has certain obligations. This was a sore point under Trump who screeched that European nations weren't meeting their required military support goals. At the time it was pointed out that an agreement was in place that was going to bring everybody up to their agreed upon levels of military readiness. It seems like Germany is now backpedaling ... hard.

[LFC]

Congratulations, Pootie. You built this.

[LFC]

Could Moldova be next? Who knows. If Putin's ability to terrorize and control them collapses it might make sense since they're bordered by Ukraine and Romania. It doesn't help him to make them the victim of his war on Ukraine.

[LFC]

Macron is once again proving himself to be utterly clueless about the reality of Russia. I think he's staked out a position of trying to sound "reasonable" to the point where he can completely ignore history and current events. If they want the Black Sea and Ukrainian grain supplies to remain stable, which means keeping Europe stable, bringing Ukraine into NATO and the EU is necessary. If they don't then history tells us Russia will attack again one day.

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24

Macron has told the press it isn’t likely that Ukraine could join NATO since Russia would perceive it as “another confrontation”.

He also repeated his statement on security guarantees, saying they are needed for both Ukraine and Russia.

[LFC]

Finland is now officially a member of NATO.

Finland formally joined NATO on Tuesday, its flag unfurling outside the military bloc's Brussels headquarters, in a historic policy shift brought on by Russia's invasion of Ukraine, drawing a threat from Moscow of "counter-measures".

Finland's accession roughly doubles the length of the border that NATO shares with Russia and bolsters its eastern flank as the war in Ukraine grinds on with no resolution in sight.

Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto completed the accession process by handing over an official document to U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken at NATO's HQ.

Putin is thumping his pathetic little chest in a display of even greater impotency, now that he's effectively destroyed much of Russia's highly overrated military capability.

Moscow, which long criticised the move, reacted crossly.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the NATO expansion was an "encroachment on our security and on Russia's national interests". Moscow would watch closely for any NATO military deployments in Finland, he said.

Different views on the street.

On their way to work on Tuesday, Helsinki residents welcomed Finland's entry into NATO, saying they felt more secure.

"I feel it's a good thing that Finland is joining NATO. We have been here next to Russia for ages," said Outi Lantimaki, 59, a designer at a shipyard. "My father was in the war with the Russians so this is like a personal thing to me."

People in the Russian city of St Petersburg, only out 150 km (93 miles) from the Finnish border, said Finland could be making problems for itself by joining NATO.

"I don't think this is a very pleasant thing because we had good, neighbourly relations with Finland for quite a long time. It joining NATO isn't based on anything. But I hope reason will prevail and that there'll be no bad, military conflicts after this," said one resident who gave his name only as Alexi.

Click here to see a map of how this changes the border. And Putin has no one to blame but himself.

[LFC]

Putting NATO expansion into context...

They say time heals all wounds and that's true if you leave them alone but Putin just can't help himself. Every smaller nation bordering Russia sees themselves as the next Ukraine, and history supports their fears.

[LFC]

Another one of Putin's "accomplishments." His war is failing at all of its objectives while bleeding Russia dry.

[LFC]

Another Putin "accomplishment."

He f***ed up royally and has no idea how to extract himself with a even the remotest shred of dignity left intact. It's actually a shame that there's nothing reasonable that he could be offered so he'd just go away because that means he'll just keep the war going.