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Post by LFC on Apr 7, 2021 22:20:09 GMT
Sen. Diane Feinstein just said she'd be open to carving out an exception in the filibuster for voting rights legislation. Moscow Mitch did the same for Supreme Court nominees. (Harry Reid, of course, did it as well when MM and the GOP blocked a ridiculous number of Obama nominations.) Manchin is still not on board, though.
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Post by goldenvalley on Apr 7, 2021 22:43:15 GMT
The real problem is Sen Sinema from AZ who doesn't seem to be reality based: Most of her fellow Democrats would tell her that the broken Senate is at least partly the result of the filibuster rule. The other part is the Republican senators' complete refusal to negotiate anything. That includes Collins and Romney who can't seem to get away from the "my way or the highway" thinking or the "I made an absurdly lowball offer and they said no so they're being unreasonable and causing gridlock".
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Post by LFC on Apr 8, 2021 14:55:16 GMT
Josh Marshall ( paywalled) says that Manchin's latest op-ed about the filibuster is not just bad news for Democrats trying to get things done but also presents a justification that makes no sense. In full:
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Post by goldenvalley on Apr 8, 2021 15:02:29 GMT
Manchin seems to be a contrarian and only that. I think that's why he remains a Democrat in a state that would rather have another Republican senator. He tweaks the Rs with his mention of a talking filibuster and then tweaks the Ds saying he sees no reason for changing the filibuster at all. He is adding fuel to the fire that Rs like to stoke.
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Post by LFC on Apr 13, 2021 21:28:18 GMT
Sen. Joe Machin's op-ed concerning the filibuster was just shredded by a counter op-ed. Manchin's arguments really don't make any sense in the reality that he's seen play out full tilt.
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Post by LFC on May 4, 2021 18:43:12 GMT
A letter signed by over 350 scholars basically urges that something must change and that the abuse of the filibuster is exactly what the Framers rejected from the Articles of Confederation.
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Post by goldenvalley on May 4, 2021 18:51:50 GMT
A letter signed by over 350 scholars basically urges that something must change and that the abuse of the filibuster is exactly what the Framers rejected from the Articles of Confederation.
That's interesting and all, but it isn't going to change Joe Manchin's mind.
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jackd
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Post by jackd on May 4, 2021 19:46:51 GMT
I'm guessing the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation don't agree with all those scholars.
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Post by LFC on May 4, 2021 19:53:20 GMT
I'm guessing the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation don't agree with all those scholars. I'm guessing they would if it was the Dems abusing it. Just sayin'.
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jackd
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Post by jackd on May 4, 2021 22:13:31 GMT
Yeah, but it isn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 12:26:31 GMT
Any opposition party has one overriding goal: to become the ruling party. Preventing the current ruling party from accruing any achievements is the first and basic step towards realizing that objective. Filibuster is a handy tool for the minority to override the majority.
Democrats fear what Republicans would do when they're in the majority. ACA gone. Social safety net gone. Every Democratic achievement would be erased. These are worthy fears because Republicans would want to eliminate those achievements. Some they would shy away from (Social Security, Medicare), some they would implement (housing, childcare, SNAP etc.). However, there would be consequences at the polls. Democratic (as in voting public) pressure should be the governor on Republican desires.
Democrats need to stop shielding the Republicans from the consequences of their own foolhardiness. Eventually, 2018 mid-term losses taught them to steer clear of ACA, even in rhetoric.
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Post by LFC on May 5, 2021 13:42:11 GMT
Any opposition party has one overriding goal: to become the ruling party. Preventing the current ruling party from accruing any achievements is the first and basic step towards realizing that objective. Filibuster is a handy tool for the minority to override the majority. And yet opposing parties managed to not abuse it for years. The Republicans decided to use it on everything ... so that's where we are now. They built this.
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jackd
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Post by jackd on May 5, 2021 14:28:41 GMT
And, if the Republicans get back in control, they will eliminate the filibuster on anything they care about so Democrats are foolish to rely on it for their own use.
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Post by Traveler on May 5, 2021 16:23:14 GMT
Tell that to Manchin and Sinnema.
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Post by LFC on Jun 1, 2021 17:39:17 GMT
Maybe he really is so dense that he can't see what's been in front of his face for over a decade. And maybe he's just a cowardly little shit.
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Post by LFC on Jun 3, 2021 3:35:45 GMT
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Post by LFC on Jun 3, 2021 18:02:43 GMT
It sounds like Senate Democrats are planning for June to be a string of failed votes. No more quiet killing of bills. The Republicans get to explain in 2022 why they voted against so many things the majority of people want and the Manchin/Sinema anti-anti-filibuster team gets to explain why their way is better.
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Post by goldenvalley on Jun 3, 2021 18:42:06 GMT
It sounds like Senate Democrats are planning for June to be a string of failed votes. No more quiet killing of bills. The Republicans get to explain in 2022 why they voted against so many things the majority of people want and the Manchin/Sinema anti-anti-filibuster team gets to explain why their way is better. That's as good a plan as any. The outside DC world isn't as interested in bipartisanship as the inside world is.
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Post by goldenvalley on Jun 3, 2021 18:42:50 GMT
It sounds like Senate Democrats are planning for June to be a string of failed votes. No more quiet killing of bills. The Republicans get to explain in 2022 why they voted against so many things the majority of people want and the Manchin/Sinema anti-anti-filibuster team gets to explain why their way is better. That's as good a plan as any. The outside of DC world isn't as interested in bipartisanship as the inside world is.
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jackd
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Post by jackd on Jun 3, 2021 19:08:04 GMT
It's probably the only plan available. If they don't bring anything to a vote, they'll be accused of doing nothing. They may get accused of that anyway if nothing passes. The more I watch it, the more I'm reminded of the midterm disaster after Obama's election. If the economy stays strong and Covid is essentially stopped, perhaps the Democrats can hold their own in the midterms but the Trump cult is energized and the Republican state legislatures are getting a free hand to set up the system their way. I wouldn't bet on the Democrats succeeding in 2022.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 14:30:24 GMT
For some strange reason CNN is still pondering "What's exactly is Joe Manchin trying to achieve?". As if much mystery remains.
Well he's trying to achieve one thing, and only one thing. Preserve his options for his 2024 re-election bid. The results from 2022 mid-terms would tell him if he would have much chance left in West Virginia winning as a Democrat. If not, he wants the option of switching parties. Changing the filibuster in any manner would eliminate that option.
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Post by Traveler on Jun 5, 2021 16:27:05 GMT
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Post by Traveler on Jun 5, 2021 16:32:19 GMT
For some strange reason CNN is still pondering "What's exactly is Joe Manchin trying to achieve?". As if much mystery remains. Well he's trying to achieve one thing, and only one thing. Preserve his options for his 2024 re-election bid. The results from 2022 mid-terms would tell him if he would have much chance left in West Virginia winning as a Democrat. If not, he wants the option of switching parties. Changing the filibuster in any manner would eliminate that option. I don't think that at all. Manchin has been Dem all along, and so far in terms of actual votes. I think he might come around to reconciliation. I am thinking its Sinnema that will be the big holdup. She has no idea of what she stands for. All this talk about going it alone if the POGers won't go along is a smokescreen. Any major infrastructure deal is dead. There will be crumbs left over paid from stimulus funds. (Which are now looking excessive, particularly UC). Meanwhile, Progs are all up in arms, idiots that they are. If it wasn't for them, Dems would have had a chance on other Senate races they lost. Collins for one. Just STFU aholes.
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Post by LFC on Jun 7, 2021 12:21:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 13:33:25 GMT
Any bill that is not supported by both Republicans and Democrats would further entrench divisions in the country. So goes Manchin's stated logic of steadfastly opposing any progress. (Personally, I have not paid much attention to the details of the HR1/SB1 - so don't have an opinion whether this is a worthwhile vehicle to pursue to ensure voting rights for all.) If lack of bipartisanship in legislation is so dangerous to the wellbeing of our country, then why doesn't he agitate against the Republican state legislators who have been passing legislations related to voting, counting, and certifying elections exclusively on a partisan basis? If this is such a danger to the nation what has he done to prevent it from occurring? Preening about motherhood and apple pie in Charleston gazette doesn't count. None of the reporters seem to have enough presence of mind to ask these simple questions.
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