Police Behavior and What To Do About It

[LFC]

Derek Chauvin is on trial for the murder of George Floyd. The defense is trying to blame his death on drugs and a heart condition, not the fact that he was handcuffed, on the ground, and strangled. An expert witness testified that it was like losing a lung. In what is a good sign multiple police officials and members have testified that what Chauvin did was contrary to his training and department policy.

As former Minneapolis cop Derek Chauvin and his colleagues pinned George Floyd on the ground for over nine minutes, the 46-year-old Black man’s airflow was so restricted it was “as if a surgeon had gone in and removed” his lung, a renowned pulmonologist testified Thursday.

“A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died as a result of what he was subjected to,” Dr. Martin Tobin, a pulmonary critical care doctor and national breathing expert from Illinois, said after being asked whether a person with no pre-existing conditions would have survived the May 25 arrest.

In a blow to the defense case, Tobin, a prosecution witness, told jurors in Hennepin County court that he believed low oxygen levels caused Floyd’s death, rather than drugs or pre-existing conditions. He spent hours breaking down, second by second, how Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck for the “vast majority of the time” eventually caused a “low level of oxygen” and ultimately brain damage. He even pinpointed the moment—when Floyd’s eyes can be seen flickering and then closing— that he said was Floyd’s last moment alive.

Tobin said that the maneuver of pressing a second knee against the left side of Floyd’s body, against his chest and lung, restricted airflow so much that it was akin to Floyd having a surgical procedure in the middle of the street.

“So basically on the left side of his lung, it was almost like a surgical pneumonectomy to me,” Tobin said. “So there was virtually very little opportunity for him to be able to get any air to move into the left side of his chest.”

The defense is taking a beating. Of course it is a trial of a police officer and they don't have a good track record of outcomes for the victims.

He explained how a 46-year-old can sustain about 60 percent narrowing of their airways without dramatically increasing their effort to breathe. But during Floyd’s arrest, his airway was restricted by 85 percent, which Tobin said means “the effort to breathe increases seven-and-a-half times compared with what it was with no narrowing.”

“Based on the formula here, you can tell that as you are narrowing and narrowing, the effort to breathe is going to become extraordinarily high and at some stage unsustainable,” Tobin added. “You’re just not going to be able to do it.”

I still don't get the defense. If I hit a defensive lineman as hard as I can I doubt it would do much damage. If I punch a tiny 90-yr old woman in a walker I would likely hurt her badly and could possibly kill her. Does that mean it's her fault for being small, frail, and old?

[goldenvalley]

Apr 9, 2021 15:39:30 GMT LFC said:

I still don't get the defense. If I hit a defensive lineman as hard as I can I doubt it would do much damage. If I punch a tiny 90-yr old woman in a walker I would likely hurt her badly and could possibly kill her. Does that mean it's her fault for being small, frail, and old?

They're looking for a hung jury. Or a jury that will acquit because they weren't at the scene, weren't the cop, and so will give the cop the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the handling of a disrespectful, drug using black man.

[goldenvalley]

From Minneapolis:

The judge denied a request from Mr. Chauvin’s lawyer to sequester the jury after unrest broke out on Sunday night, following the killing of a 20-year-old Black man, who was shot by an officer during a traffic stop in a Minneapolis suburb.

The Minneapolis police force can't get out of its own way.  You'd think the powers that be would be telling their people not to shoot people, no matter how provoked, during this trial.  The powers that be did a lot to distance the police force from bad cop behavior with testimony over the last week and now this.  

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2021 15:39:30 GMT LFC said:

I still don't get the defense. If I hit a defensive lineman as hard as I can I doubt it would do much damage. If I punch a tiny 90-yr old woman in a walker I would likely hurt her badly and could possibly kill her. Does that mean it's her fault for being small, frail, and old?

Yeah, if one member of the jury believes it sufficiently. 

Why do you fantasize hitting people? What's going on?

Also, remember, it's permissible only to hit Ted Cruz. Figuratively, of course.

[LFC]

Apr 12, 2021 16:39:25 GMT @probabilistic3 said:

Why do you fantasize hitting people? What's going on?

It's an offshoot of sharing the road with idiots. "Why yes, I would like to shove that cellphone down your throat because you nearly hit me."

[LFC]

Apr 12, 2021 16:19:48 GMT goldenvalley said:

The Minneapolis police force can't get out of its own way.  You'd think the powers that be would be telling their people not to shoot people, no matter how provoked, during this trial.  The powers that be did a lot to distance the police force from bad cop behavior with testimony over the last week and now this.  

This seems to be like a truly unintentional f***-up in the heat of the moment but because of the PD's track record it will likely turn into a bigger shitstorm. The taser sounds like it was warranted. Clearly gunning the man down was not. But with bodycam footage we at least have an indication that the officer really did intend to use a taser.

[goldenvalley]

Apr 12, 2021 21:42:58 GMT LFC said:

This seems to be like a truly unintentional f***-up in the heat of the moment but because of the PD's track record it will likely turn into a bigger shitstorm. The taser sounds like it was warranted. Clearly gunning the man down was not. But with bodycam footage we at least have an indication that the officer really did intend to use a taser.

 Yeah I made my comment before the tasing thing was revealed.  I see the alleged mistake and it makes more sense to me. Though it makes me wonder why the taser and the revolver are so close together on the cop's belt that it's easy to grab the wrong one.  

[Bact PhD]

Apr 12, 2021 22:29:11 GMT goldenvalley said:

Apr 12, 2021 21:42:58 GMT LFC said:

This seems to be like a truly unintentional f***-up in the heat of the moment but because of the PD's track record it will likely turn into a bigger shitstorm. The taser sounds like it was warranted. Clearly gunning the man down was not. But with bodycam footage we at least have an indication that the officer really did intend to use a taser.

 Yeah I made my comment before the tasing thing was revealed.  I see the alleged mistake and it makes more sense to me. Though it makes me wonder why the taser and the revolver are so close together on the cop's belt that it's easy to grab the wrong one.  

So close together on the belt...and a bit too close in “feel,” perhaps. In that sort of a moment, I don’t know how difficult it is to distinguish one from the other.

[LFC]

Apr 12, 2021 22:29:11 GMT goldenvalley said:

 Yeah I made my comment before the tasing thing was revealed.  I see the alleged mistake and it makes more sense to me. Though it makes me wonder why the taser and the revolver are so close together on the cop's belt that it's easy to grab the wrong one.  

Wait, were they? I thought they were actually on opposite sides which made this a particularly big f***-up.

[goldenvalley]

Apr 13, 2021 0:44:24 GMT Bact PhD said:

Apr 12, 2021 22:29:11 GMT goldenvalley said:

 Yeah I made my comment before the tasing thing was revealed.  I see the alleged mistake and it makes more sense to me. Though it makes me wonder why the taser and the revolver are so close together on the cop's belt that it's easy to grab the wrong one.  

So close together on the belt...and a bit too close in “feel,” perhaps. In that sort of a moment, I don’t know how difficult it is to distinguish one from the other.

I thought I heard the police chief in the case say that the Taser was actually on the opposite side of the body from the firearm but I can't find a print report that says that.  Here's a discussion of Tasers and confusion.  

I just don't understand how a traffic stop can lead to this.  What's so important about an expired registration or air fresheners hanging from the rearview mirror?  In my part of the world running stop lights, an actual danger to other vehicles, is handled by cameras at the intersections.  The ticket is mailed to the wrongdoer. Not as dramatic as pulling someone over so the officer can look tough and menacing as they advance on the vehicle and confront the driver.  

[LFC]

Apr 13, 2021 15:21:04 GMT goldenvalley said:

I just don't understand how a traffic stop can lead to this.  What's so important about an expired registration or air fresheners hanging from the rearview mirror? 

This is a LONG standing police technique. In the early 90s we lived near a local officer. He said they pulled people over all the time late at night for small infractions to try to find drunk drivers. He said it worked better than traffic stops. I've also read police saying if you follow somebody long enough they're bound to cross a line on the road or do something else trivial that can be used an excuse to pull them over. Or they can just lie and say you were driving "suspiciously."

[LFC]

The Virginia AG is going to investigate the asshole who pulled over the U.S. Army Lieutenant, pulled his gun, threatened him, and pepper sprayed him.

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring (D) announced on Monday evening that his Office of Civil Rights would be investigating an incident in which a police officer pepper sprayed a uniformed Black Army medic named Lt. Caron Nazario during a traffic stop in December.

Herring told CNN that the behavior of the officer, Joe Gutierrez, and his fellow officer at the scene, Daniel Crocker, as shown in recently released video footage of the incident was “appalling” and “dangerous.”

“Under no reasonable use of force policies that I could say was any of this conduct be permissible,” the attorney general said. “And that’s why the investigation is important.”

“But it’s also important to find out: Is this is an isolated incident, or have there been reports in the past of unconstitutional policing or brutality or complaints about it about these officers, or about the department?” he added. “Because if so, then we’ve got more work to do in order to put a stop to it, to root it out, and to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

Body cam video footage of the arrest became public amid Nazario’s lawsuit against Gutierrez and Crocker, who pulled over the lieutenant and held him at gunpoint when he drove through Windsor, Virginia in December. The footage shows Gutierrez shouting at Nazario to get out of the car while the medic calmly asks with his hands up why he was being pulled over.

Anybody trying to explain away these actions must first explain these words by the officer. Good luck with that.

Lt. Nazario: “I’m honestly afraid to get out of the car.”
Officer Gutierrez: “Yeah, you should be.”

[goldenvalley]

Kid #1, female, college student, got pulled over at 1 AM driving to her apartment from a friend's place.  The pretext, the little light bulb that illuminates the rear license plate was out.  She was beyond nervous...late in the night, alone with a male police officer hulking at the car door.  She wasn't drinking or high. She was 20 at the time and was designated driver for her friends that night. He chastised her for not changing her drivers license address to her apartment. Our home address was on it.  Didn't write a ticket for the light bulb.  I guess he had fun making her scared.

[LFC]

Dumbest ticket I ever got was when an officer, probably trying to make quota, pulled me over and wrote me up for the little plastic rim the dealers put around the license plate with their name on it. There's apparently a law that says that obstructs the license plate. (The number and state were clearly still visible.) It was a NJ shore town in winter. I guess ticket revenues are low outside of tourist season and I had a PA plate. I paid the $40 rather than take a day off and driving 2+ hours to a court date.

[LFC]

The officer who shot Daunte Wright just resigned.

[goldenvalley]

Apr 13, 2021 17:53:29 GMT LFC said:

The officer who shot Daunte Wright just resigned.

Saved them the trouble of firing her.  Of course it won't head off any civil lawsuits for her or the department.

[andydp]

Apr 13, 2021 16:26:46 GMT LFC said:

Dumbest ticket I ever got was when an officer, probably trying to make quota, pulled me over and wrote me up for the little plastic rim the dealers put around the license plate with their name on it. There's apparently a law that says that obstructs the license plate. (The number and state were clearly still visible.) It was a NJ shore town in winter. I guess ticket revenues are low outside of tourist season and I had a PA plate. I paid the $40 rather than take a day off and driving 2+ hours to a court date.

Didn't get a ticket, but after eight years of driving without a front plate on the Corvette I was pulled over in town.  

I wasn't speeding, everything was good.  As background, I can't tell you how many checkpoints, stops, safety checks etc I went through with that car and not one officer or Trooper said anything about a missing front plate.

That is until a State Police Lieutenant pulls me over. Starts asking if I know why he pulled me over.  I said I had absolutely no idea. He kept asking and I kept repeating I had no idea.  Finally reveals he stopped me for no front plate.  I said its in back, I took it off at the car wash and forgot. Asked him if I could get out and put it on.  End of problem.  Didn't write me up or give me a warning.  

For the record: I forgot to put it back on last week too.

[Bact PhD]

Apr 13, 2021 16:21:25 GMT goldenvalley said:

Kid #1, female, college student, got pulled over at 1 AM driving to her apartment from a friend's place.  The pretext, the little light bulb that illuminates the rear license plate was out.  She was beyond nervous...late in the night, alone with a male police officer hulking at the car door.  She wasn't drinking or high. She was 20 at the time and was designated driver for her friends that night. He chastised her for not changing her drivers license address to her apartment. Our home address was on it.  Didn't write a ticket for the light bulb.  I guess he had fun making her scared.

Twenty-plus years ago, when Chem PhD and I were dating (and Dear Daughter was probably about 3, she was definitely still in a car seat), the three of us were coming back from the beach (a 2-hour drive) on a Saturday night. I was driving. Dear Daughter had been puking for the last hour or so of the drive, and all I wanted to do was get back to my apartment, get her cleaned up and down for the night, and me down for the night. We're on the home stretch...very little traffic...one more gauntlet of traffic signals, including my turn-off, and it was a wrap. I'm doing 37 in a 35, and I see the cruiser pull out. Shit...but no flashers so far.
Three lights...
Two lights (still right behind me)...
The light where I make my turn-off (Finally!). There's one car stopped, me,...and the cop (still no lights, no nothing).
One cycle of the light runs through, but no green turn arrow.
Two cycles, same thing.
After the third cycle without a turn arrow, both the driver in front of me and I said "To hell with this!" and went through the red light in the absence of any traffic.
You know what happened next.
The lights. Shit!
Officer Friendly went to the driver in front of me (who turned out to also be female) first. I guess she (like I) claimed the light was broken, because when he came to me, after taking my license and looking at it, (and I forget the exact wording) used words to the effect that we both still should have sat there until it turned green (yeah, right!). Anyhoo, only a verbal warning...maybe the kid puke turned him off.

[LFC]

We know the inaccuracy of facial recognition technology, especially for blacks, and Detroit PD used it as the sole reason to improperly hold a man in jail for 30 hours. This is what happens when you're drive to get a suspect, any suspect, rather than to ensure you've got the right suspect.

The ACLU today announced a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of

Robert Williams, a Black man arrested based on a false face recognition match by Detroit police.

Williams was held "in a dirty, overcrowded cell for 30 hours — until they realized that 'the computer got it wrong,'" the ACLU stated in announcing the suit. The ALCU filed the case on behalf of Williams in conjunction with the University of Michigan Law School's Civil Rights Litigation Initiative.

The lawsuit charges that the police violated Williams' rights protected by the Fourth Amendment and Michigan's civil rights law. "It seeks damages and demands that the Detroit Police

Department institute policy changes to halt the abuse of face recognition technology," the ACLU stated.

"It is well documented that face recognition technology is deeply flawed," the ACLU reported. "The technology has a disturbing record of racial bias against people of color and other marginalized groups. Many jurisdictions ban its use for that reason, among others.

It gets worse. This is flat out criminal on the part of the arresting officers.

"Despite the technology's well-known flaws, Detroit police relied on it almost exclusively in their investigation. They did not perform even a rudimentary investigation into Williams' whereabouts during the time of the Shinola shoplifting incident. If they had, they would have realized that Williams was not the culprit — he was driving home from work outside of Detroit at the time the incident took place.

"After the "witness" falsely identified Williams, the police submitted a faulty and misleading request for an arrest warrant. They did not include the probe image used to generate the faulty face recognition "match," nor did they disclose that the image was blurry, dark, and showed an obstructed, barely-visible face turned away from the camera — impermissible conditions for a face recognition search by even the police department's own standards.

"They also failed to mention that face recognition technology is known to be faulty under these circumstances. Nor did they disclose that the image of Williams that "matched" with the culprit's was actually his expired driver's license, rather than the most current image of him on file with the state.

"Moreover, the police did not mention that the individual who picked Williams out of the lineup had never actually seen the shoplifter in person. And perhaps most egregiously, the police did not explain that both the unknown suspect and Williams are Black, and that face recognition technology is well known to produce significantly higher rates of false matches when used to try to identify images of Black people, as compared to white men.

[goldenvalley]

Gee you can't even face your accuser when the accuser is facial recognition technology.  

[AnBr]

[LFC]

Stupid, paid, racist, just believes police can do no wrong, or some toxic mix of some/all of these?

A former medical examiner testifying in former Minneapolis cop Derek Chauvin’s murder trial has raised the bizarre theory that exhaust from the police car may have contributed to George Floyd’s death.

Dr. David Fowler, a defense witness, wheeled out studies that showed people can die of carbon monoxide poisoning in open spaces, and that people with heart issues are more susceptible.

“In my opinion, Mr. Floyd had a sudden cardiac arrhythmia or cardiac arrhythmia due to his atherosclerotic or hypertensive heart disease… during his restraint and subdual by the police, and then his significant contributory conditions would be... he would have the toxicology, the fentanyl and methamphetamine, there is exposure to a vehicle exhaust, so potentially carbon monoxide poisoning or at least an effect from increased carbon monoxide in his bloodstream, and paraganglioma,” Fowler, who was the chief medical examiner for the state of Maryland for almost two decades, told jurors in Hennepin County court on Tuesday.

The paraganglioma referred to a benign tumor found on Floyd’s pelvis after his death, which Fowler claimed could increase adrenaline. “All those combined to cause Mr. Floyd’s death,” he added.

He said that carbon monoxide did not “exclusively” cause Floyd’s death and he wasn’t aware if carbon monoxide levels were tested during Floyd’s autopsy. He explained that the cops likely didn’t suffer from the exposure because they were further away from the car, were younger, and “hopefully” didn’t have heart disease.

He sounds like a Republican justifying voter suppression laws. "I have no evidence and there are much more plausible scenarios but this could have happened and that's why I'm convinced it did happen." Crackpot.

[LFC]

Chauvin pleaded the Fifth.

[goldenvalley]

Apr 15, 2021 16:05:16 GMT LFC said:

Chauvin pleaded the Fifth.

Why would he do that?  The defense could just rest without calling him, at least in my state that's true.

The defense rested after saying that holding the guy prone was not a use of force and that the victim actually died of heart disease.  It's as if the app. 9 minutes holding him down didn't even happen.

[LFC]

Interesting juxtaposition with multiple recent cases when people of color were on the receiving end.

A white man in Minnesota has been arrested after he dragged a police officer beside his vehicle following a traffic stop.

In a news release on Wednesday, Hutchinson Police Chief Tom Gifferson revealed that the 61-year-old man is accused of using a piece of lumber to assault an employee at a Menards store after he was asked to wear a face mask.

According to the Star Tribune, an officer later attempted to stop the man after he was spotted at a nearby Walmart.
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The report continues:

The vehicle soon stopped near Hwy. 15 and Freemont Avenue. When the officer tried to engage the suspect through the driver's side window, the suspect took off "at a high rate of speed" with the officer trapped and hanging from the window, Gifferson said. During the struggle, the suspect hit the officer in the head with a hammer, he said.

The name of the suspect was not released by Hutchinson police.