Guns

[AnBr]

[goldenvalley]

Dec 8, 2021 3:03:51 GMT AnBr said:

<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>

That makes me stop and choke up.  If the killing of 1st graders didn't make people stop and think that American gun culture is out of control and must be reined in I don't know what will. That both infuriates and saddens me.

[AnBr]

I was going to drop this in the humor thread, but it is too sad and true to go there.

[pnwguy]

Mix in decades of under-funded mental health care in the US, right wing broadcasters and social media exalting violence, and the most guns per capital on earth, and you get situations like Denver with Lyndon McCleod

www.thedailybeast.com/sixth-person-dies-after-deadly-denver-killing-spree-police-say

If there have to be victims like this, karma should visit it on the Lauren Boeberts of the world. I fear the coming years will continue to see a steep rise in gun violence, and I'm not talking about gang bangers. Let's see what happens in 2022 if SCOTUS pours some rocket fuel on the fires.

Are we headed to Zombieland, but without the zombies being un-dead? Fox News ate their brains?

[Art Vandelay]

This Silicon Valley city just voted to institute first-in-the-nation gun ownership requirements

The San Jose, California, city council voted Tuesday night to adopt a first-in-the-nation ordinance requiring most gun owners to pay a fee and carry liability insurance, measures aimed at reducing the risk of gun harm by incentivizing safer behavior and easing taxpayers of the financial burden of gun violence.



The council in the Silicon Valley city split the vote into two parts: the first approving the bulk of the proposal, including the insurance provisions, and the second approving the fee provisions. The insurance vote passed 10-1, while the fees vote passed 8-3. The ordinance must be approved next month at its final reading in order to take effect in August. Gun rights supporters have threatened to sue to block the measures if they become law.



[snip]



Under San Jose's measure, gun owners would be charged an annual $25 fee directed to a nonprofit set up to distribute funds to gun crime prevention and to victims of gun violence. The measure would require gun owners to obtain liability insurance that would cover damage caused by their weapon.



People who fail to comply are subject to fines and could have firearms impounded "subject to a due process hearing," the ordinance says. Lower premiums for those with gun safes, trigger locks and completed gun safety classes are expected to incentivize safer behavior. As to enforcement, police officers crossing paths with gun owners would ask for proof of insurance, much like they do with car insurance during traffic stops, Liccardo explained.



While some would be exempt, including those in law enforcement, those with concealed-carry permits, and those for whom the fee would be a financial burden, pushback is expected, the mayor acknowledged.

I have been pitching the idea of a liability insurance requirement to my state legislator for several years but haven't made any real headway. He likes the notion, but thinks there would be too many hurdles in my state. I hope this goes into effect, but I assume it will be tied up in the courts. Curious what our legal brains think will happen here.

[goldenvalley]

Jan 27, 2022 23:04:29 GMT Art Vandelay said:

This Silicon Valley city just voted to institute first-in-the-nation gun ownership requirements




I have been pitching the idea of a liability insurance requirement to my state legislator for several years but haven't made any real headway. He likes the notion, but thinks there would be too many hurdles in my state. I hope this goes into effect, but I assume it will be tied up in the courts. Curious what our legal brains think will happen here.

My legal brain has no experience in this but I'm sure the opponents will use any means they can to prevent enforcement of any such ordinance or statute.  My questions: Why would concealed carry permit holders be exempt from the provisions?  And, where do you go to buy liability insurance that would cover this?  I'd have to dig out my homeowners insurance policy but even if it is somehow covered I can bet insurance companies will rewrite their policies to exclude coverage for damage caused by firearms.

[LFC]

Violent right-wingers have spent decades screeching that people need guns to protect themselves and then went about creating a world where that was true. Now thanks to the magic of self-fulfilling prophecy black gun ownership is taking off. The NRA and it's masters are surely thrilled. The MAGAts? Maybe not so much when they realize what's happening.

Williams has never shot a gun, but she’s been thinking about learning how to use one for years. She just discovered the opportunity to apply for a permit—and receive lessons—a few days ago, when a friend introduced her to the Twin Cities Chapter of the National African American Gun Association (NAAGA). Williams, who joined through a special initiative of the chapter to pay the enrollment fees for single mothers, is part of the quiet explosion in the number of black gun owners nationwide. In 2014, 19 percent of black households had a gun owner, according to a study by the Pew Research Center. By 2017 (the latest data available) that number had grown to 24 percent. And NAGA estimates the percentage may now be even higher, considering the organization’s membership numbers this year: NAAGA, which started with one chapter in Atlanta in 2015, now has more than 100 chapters nationwide with 40,000 members. More than 10,000 of them, like Williams, joined this year, according to the group.

The growth parallels a 55 percent increase in the number of white nationalist groups since 2017, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. The group also reported, citing FBI data, that “27 percent of all hate crimes in 2018—the largest share among all categories—were motivated by anti-black bias.”

African-American gun usage as a form of protection against racial violence is not new and, in fact, is as old as slave rebellions. But the latest deluge of evidence of killings of people of color—by police, by those connected to police, by random white people—have lent the cause even greater urgency.

“It’s not like racism didn’t exist before, but the Trump presidency gave license to allow it to become overt,” said Rik Stevenson, who helped start a NAAGA chapter in Grand Rapids, Michigan, before moving to Gainesville, Florida, to teach at the University of Florida last September. “And black people are seeing that they are targets.”

When Philip T. Smith, 61, founded NAAGA in 2015, he did not envision an organization that would grow so rapidly on the fears of white supremacist violence. Barack Obama was president, and Smith merely started shooting recreationally after a group of friends invited him to a range. Eventually, he invited a group of black friends to join him, and they formed the Bass Reeves Gun Club, which became the Atlanta chapter of NAAGA.

“Today, we’re getting so many different types of folks,” Smith told The Daily Beast. “Doctors, engineers, unemployed state workers, federal workers, policemen, military. We even have white, Latino, and Asian members. You can be gay, straight, loud, quiet, dorky, rich, or poor.”

[pnwguy]

Feb 1, 2022 21:59:41 GMT LFC said:

Violent right-wingers have spent decades screeching that people need guns to protect themselves and then went about creating a world where that was true. Now thanks to the magic of self-fulfilling prophecy black gun ownership is taking off. The NRA and it's masters are surely thrilled. The MAGAts? Maybe not so much when they realize what's happening.

We have thousands of homeless on the streets. They are very at risk of theft and violence. Let's get the NRA to fund gun giveaways to them. Who needs shelter, when you have a gun?

[LFC]

Feb 1, 2022 22:05:08 GMT pnwguy said:

We have thousands of homeless on the streets. They are very at risk of theft and violence. Let's get the NRA to fund gun giveaways to them. Who needs shelter, when you have a gun?

[goldenvalley]

Somehow the 2nd Amendment fanatics failed to understand that the color that counts to the weapons manufacturers that funded the NRA for is years is green.  Money! Not just white folks have it.

[LFC]

Feb 1, 2022 22:44:00 GMT goldenvalley said:

Somehow the 2nd Amendment fanatics failed to understand that the color that counts to the weapons manufacturers that funded the NRA for is years is green.  Money! Not just white folks have it.

Remember how NFAC (Not F***ing Around Coalition) showed up at Stone Mountain and the white supremacists slunk (slinked) away? They've been appearing elsewhere.

Started in 2017, the group has marched in Stone Mountain, Georgia, calling for the removal of the nation’s largest Confederate monument; Brunswick, Georgia, for Ahmaud Arbery; Louisville, Kentucky, demanding more transparency in the Breonna Taylor case; and most recently Lafayette, Louisiana, in the name of Trayford Pellerin.

Another armed black group showed up at a rally in Tulsa in remembrance of the 1921 massacre.

Several hundred armed Black men and women dressed in fatigues held a march downtown Saturday afternoon, paying tribute to ancestors who were killed in the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre and vowing that such an event will never happen again.

“This is the strongest Black presence that Tulsa has ever seen,” an organizer said through a megaphone just outside ONEOK Field. “White Tulsa will never forget this day.

“Black Tulsa has no reason to be afraid, ever again.”

The march was organized by the Elmer Geronimo Pratt Gun Club of Central Texas, but it also included members of the New Black Panther Party and others.

Get used to it, snowflakes. The next one of you who shows up with a baton or bear mace at a BLM rally might find somebody standing their ground. I wish it wasn't this way but you built this, assholes. I bet it was a lot more fun when you weren't worried about ending up face down in a pool of your own blood.

[jackd]

I understand the passion bit I wonder if MLK, Jr. would agree.

[LFC]

Feb 1, 2022 23:49:00 GMT jackd said:

I understand the passion bit I wonder if MLK, Jr. would agree.

He would not, but of course he isn't the end all, be all arbiter of how black people should act in all situations. And then there's the pesky little fact that he was assassinated.

[goldenvalley]

Feb 1, 2022 23:49:00 GMT jackd said:

I understand the passion bit I wonder if MLK, Jr. would agree.

Sadly we are operating in a different time, a time when armed men stand in the visitors gallery in a state house showing their dicks, I mean long guns.  A time when a 17 year old decides he should go to a town with his illegally purchased fire arm, kill a couple of people, and walk away from it. I don't know how MLK,Jr. would react.

[jackd]

Many years ago, when I was in law school, Malcolm X spoke at a gathering there and warned that the brothers were arming and that the Man had better be aware of that. Taking questions from the audience, a student with a southern drawl stood and said, "Mistuh X, I suppose you are aware that there are many more of us than of you." And, he didn't bother to add, are armed. MLK, Jr. was not really of a different time.

[LFC]

There's one big difference between the sides. Many of the white supremacists are fired up on grievance, mostly over misplaced blame or flat out lies. This makes them angry, when it's safe. Many of the armed black people are fired up because they fear for their safety and their very lives, mostly because of a lifetime of examples that are increasing by the year. If the shooting starts which side is more likely to bolt, the one who want to kill or those fighting to survive? I think there are a lot of fair weather white supremacists. Unfortunately there are a smaller but not insignificant utter nutters.

[jackd]

Regardless of the numbers on each side and the motivations involved, we really don't want a race war. Dr. King advocated non violence even in the face physical danger. It's a tough position to maintain.

[andydp]

Feb 2, 2022 15:35:07 GMT jackd said:

Regardless of the numbers on each side and the motivations involved, we really don't want a race war. Dr. King advocated non violence even in the face physical danger. It's a tough position to maintain.

Agreed its very tough to maintain your composure.  Remember Teddy Roosevelt:

Speak softly but carry a big stick

Not to be outdone, we have VI Lenin:

Probe with bayonets. If you encounter steel, withdraw. If you encounter mush, continue.

In the real world, very often, a show of strength is enough to make the "paper tigers" withdraw.

[LFC]

Feb 2, 2022 15:50:43 GMT andydp said:

In the real world, very often, a show of strength is enough to make the "paper tigers" withdraw.

Exactly. The MAGAts that drove into BLM protesters and bear maced them were convinced that there would be no repercussions. If they have to worry about a half dozen "standing their ground" most of these cowards will back off like so many bullies do. This does nothing to address the truly violent MAGAts but then nothing other than imprisonment or death will.

Here's one recent example. Do you think Kyle Rittenhouse's mommy would have driven him and his AR to play soldier if she knew there was a good chance that somebody would shoot back?

[LFC]

Remember the NRA's reaction to a police officer murdering Philando Castillo because he was scared of the firearm he was legally in possession of? Well, their silence is once again deafening after another person of color was murdered because he had a legally owned firearm in his own home. It's part of a long-term trend. It's "almost" like they won't support the rights of non-white legal gun owners. Hmmmmm.

In 2016, officers pulled Philando Castile over for a broken tail light in the St. Paul suburbs in Minnesota. He was a licensed gun owner and told the officer he was carrying; he was gunned down anyway. The NRA, however, stayed conspicuously silent even under public pressure. More than a year later, after the officer was acquitted, then-NRA spokesperson Dana Loesch went on CNN and acknowledged the killing as a “tragedy” and “awful.”

“There are a lot of variables in this particular case, and there were a lot of things that I wish would have been done differently,” Loesch said.

It’s not as if the NRA doesn’t support a right to armed self-defense. The group spent years lobbying state legislatures to implement so-called Stand Your Ground laws. When George Zimmerman leaned on such a law in Florida after killing Trayvon Martin, the NRA called such statutes a “human right.”

In 2018, E.J. Bradford, a young, Black Army veteran with a license to carry, was in a mall when gunshots broke out. He drew his weapon — standing his ground — and cops instantly shot him dead and later blamed him for “brandishing” his weapon. The NRA stayed silent.

In March 2020, Louisville, Kentucky, police smashed their way into the apartment of Kenneth Walker. He was with Breonna Taylor and thought her ex-boyfriend had broken in, so he ran to get his gun, which he was legally permitted to own. Police shot him, and also shot and killed Taylor. The NRA was silent.

Last Wednesday, police in the Twin Cities again executed a no-knock warrant, smashing their way into an apartment in the dead of night. Amir Locke was asleep on the couch. Scared for his life and no doubt dazed from being woken up by intruders, he fumbled for his weapon, which he was legally allowed to carry. In seconds, police shot and killed him. To its credit, the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus released a statement demanding an investigation.

“The NRA has not commented — we have a longstanding policy of not commenting on ongoing investigations,” Amy Hunter, an NRA spokesperson, told The Intercept.

In late 2012, after the massacre of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, the NRA was faced with a strategic choice: Recognize that lax gun laws had gone too far and find some reasonable compromise, or dig in. The NRA decided to make its stand, blaming mental health care and video games for the shooting. “The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun,” NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre famously said.

Who the NRA decides to stand up for — whose life matters, and whose doesn’t — lets us know what LaPierre meant by good.

[pnwguy]

Proud mom encouraged her sociopath son to show off his new toy.

www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-crumbley-trial-texts-oxford-school-shooting/

A day before four students were killed at a Michigan school, the mother of the teenager charged with carrying out the mass shooting sent him a text message asking if he had showed teachers a "pic of your new gun," an investigator testified Tuesday.


The text was one of several between Jennifer and Ethan Crumbley on Nov. 29 after school officials left a voicemail informing her that the 15-year-old was looking up ammunition on his phone.

Guns are not defense weapons or tools to the nutcases, but idols to be worshipped.

[goldenvalley]

Feb 9, 2022 16:47:01 GMT pnwguy said:

Proud mom encouraged her sociopath son to show off his new toy.

www.cbsnews.com/news/jennifer-crumbley-trial-texts-oxford-school-shooting/

A day before four students were killed at a Michigan school, the mother of the teenager charged with carrying out the mass shooting sent him a text message asking if he had showed teachers a "pic of your new gun," an investigator testified Tuesday.


The text was one of several between Jennifer and Ethan Crumbley on Nov. 29 after school officials left a voicemail informing her that the 15-year-old was looking up ammunition on his phone.

Guns are not defense weapons or tools to the nutcases, but idols to be worshipped.

This was quite the screwed up family...notice that the parents skedaddled after cleaning out their kid's bank account and their own when the kid was arrested.  It's good they will be prosecuted for handing the kid the gun and ignoring the clear warnings the kid left with his drawing of a shooting.

[Bact PhD]

Another case of “OOPS! Grabbed the wrong thing!” In Flori-DUH, of course.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-officer-meant-use-taser-fired-gun-paralyzing-man-called-help-p-rcna15633

A review of a police shooting that paralyzed a man last year found that the officer who opened fire meant to use his Taser but shot his gun instead, authorities said Tuesday.

Michael Ortiz was naked and restrained when an officer from the Hollywood Police Department in Florida shot him in the back July 3, Ortiz's lawyers said in a joint statement Wednesday.

[snip]

As officers tried to move him into an elevator so he could be taken to a hospital, Ortiz resisted and the officer opened fire, according to police.

"An initial review suggests the officer intended to deploy his Taser, but instead discharged his firearm," the police statement said.

The officer, who has not been identified, was placed on leave while state and local authorities investigate.

"The department recognizes this is an unfortunate incident and is doing what it can to make sure this doesn’t happen again," the police statement said. "We empathize with Mr. Ortiz and his family and know they have many questions about that evening. Our hope is that once the investigation is complete, we will be able to meet with them and provide any additional information they are seeking."

Ortiz's lawyers blasted the agency, saying their client "needed help from the Hollywood Police Department, but what they provided instead was a bullet in the back."

Ortiz “was handcuffed, naked, on the ground, and posed no threat to the officer when he was shot in the back, resulting in his paralysis,” lawyers Benjamin Crump, Paul Napoli and Hunter Shkolnik said in a statement.

[LFC]

Feb 10, 2022 16:13:52 GMT Bact PhD said:

Another case of “OOPS! Grabbed the wrong thing!”

This is a textbook case of why we need to move some funding from policing to mental health response. Assuming it was an accident, I'd love to see video of the incident to see how quickly the officer went for the taser.

[goldenvalley]

A historic event...Remington Arms settles with Sandy Hook parents.

On Tuesday, the victims’ families marked a victory in their effort with the announcement of a $73 million settlement with Remington Arms, which manufactures the Bushmaster. The settlement, which comes after a protracted court battle, marks the first instance in the United States of a gun manufacturer facing liability for a mass shooting. 

There have been protracted negotiations.

Remington, which has filed for bankruptcy, offered to pay nearly $33 million to the nine families last July.

This of course isn't the same as some court ruling that arms manufacturers are legally liable. I imagine the other companies are celebrating the end of a competitor and deriding the company being being wimps.