Trump's Crimes & Investigations

[indy]

People have looked into similar tax evasion cases (i.e., about the same $ amounts) and 4-6 year sentences seems pretty typical.

[indy]

Jul 2, 2021 14:46:09 GMT goldenvalley said:

Jul 2, 2021 11:46:26 GMT andydp said:

Its the thrill of "sticking it" to Uncle Sam and the rest of the "great unwashed"

Chiseling...the same reason he stiffed contractors.  Because he could.  

I suspect his loyalists will say all businessmen do that and get away with it but poor Trump is picked on by the Deep State.  I say, when you elevate your profile as he always did, someone in law enforcement is going to start paying attention.

But what's really strange here is that almost all of the advantages of this little game they were playing with taxes accrued to Weisselberg, right? Weisselberg's compensation already meant he was capped out of paying any additional social security taxes. The only thing that the Trump org got out of it was the ability to not pay the employer share of the medicare taxes, which would have been really insignificant. It totals to like $14,000. I'm absolutely positive the record keeping alone cost more than that. So Weisselberg evaded a ton of income tax and Trump org spent money to do it. It cost Trump money to do this.

So, either Trump didn't know (seems...unlikely) or something I don't understand is going on here (seems more likely). But what is it? Really, what the hell is going on here?

[LFC]

Jul 2, 2021 20:29:27 GMT indy said:

But what's really strange here is that almost all of the advantages of this little game they were playing with taxes accrued to Weisselberg, right? Weisselberg's compensation already meant he was capped out of paying any additional social security taxes. The only thing that the Trump org got out of it was the ability to not pay the employer share of the medicare taxes, which would have been really insignificant. It totals to like $14,000. So Weisselberg evaded a ton of income tax and Trump org saved $14,000. That's it. Trump himself got virtually nothing out of it.

So, either Trump didn't know (seems...unlikely) or something I don't understand is going on here (seems more likely). But what is it? Really, what the hell is going on here?

If the Trump Org paid taxes (yeah, I know that's a yuuuuge "if") then they saved even less and possibly it cost them even more. They didn't pay the 1.45% Medicare tax but they also didn't get to write off millions in compensation from any profits they had to declare. That money would be taxed at 21%.

[indy]

Jul 2, 2021 20:49:06 GMT LFC said:

Jul 2, 2021 20:29:27 GMT indy said:

But what's really strange here is that almost all of the advantages of this little game they were playing with taxes accrued to Weisselberg, right? Weisselberg's compensation already meant he was capped out of paying any additional social security taxes. The only thing that the Trump org got out of it was the ability to not pay the employer share of the medicare taxes, which would have been really insignificant. It totals to like $14,000. So Weisselberg evaded a ton of income tax and Trump org saved $14,000. That's it. Trump himself got virtually nothing out of it.

So, either Trump didn't know (seems...unlikely) or something I don't understand is going on here (seems more likely). But what is it? Really, what the hell is going on here?

If the Trump Org paid taxes (yeah, I know that's a yuuuuge "if") then they saved even less and possibly it cost them even more. They didn't pay the 1.45% Medicare tax but they also didn't get to write off millions in compensation from any profits they had to declare. That money would be taxed at 21%.

Well, if anybody can explain to me how the Trumps or the Trump Org benefited from a scheme to help their employees (and the indictment mentions multiple people, not just Weisselberg) evade taxes, I'm all ears.

Seems like all risk, no reward. I think Trump is an idiot but he's not THAT stupid.

[Deleted]

Potentially perky payoff for doing other kinds of financial dirty deeds. Deeds the investigators have not got wind of or haven't probably found provable evidence.

[goldenvalley]

Jul 2, 2021 23:12:11 GMT @probabilistic3 said:

Potentially perky payoff for doing other kinds of financial dirty deeds. Deeds the investigators have not got wind of or haven't probably found provable evidence.

That was my first thought too. Who knows what Weisselberg knows about Trump's "business interests", how he paid for golf courses, who might have benefited from his sales of condos to certain people for perhaps illegal purposes.  

I'm still curious about that guy Schiller who was Trump's body man or something for years until Trump became president.

[indy]

Well, three other people were referenced in the indictment as also having received untaxed compensation, including Weisselberg's son (though in the indictment he is only identified as a family member). One of the others could be Schiller. The next turn of the thumbscrew will likely be indicting the son. I guess we'll see just how loyal Weisselberg is if that happens.

One of the more interesting ploys was to pay part of the year-end bonuses to Weisselberg (and others) through another Trump company and report it through that company as 1099 income to Weisselberg. That allowed Weisselberg to claim it as self-employment income and establish a Keogh retirement plan (available only to self-employed people) and put up to 58K into the plan tax-free. My guess is pretty much exactly that amount of the year-end bonuses were paid that way.

This is just another example of just how far the Trump org went out of their way to help Weisselberg and others evade taxes that resulted in additional work for the organization but no obvious benefit to them, at least monetarily. So once again, I can't help but wonder what is really going on.

[indy]

By the way, one of the charges is conspiracy with reference to "unindicted co-conspirator #1" who is almost certainly Trump.

[goldenvalley]

Take a look at emptywheel's assessment of the charges against Weisselberg.

Thus far I get how this is supposed to work: Weisselberg has thus far been charged only for the tax fraud that benefitted him. If he doesn’t cooperate, his kid will be charged for the tax fraud that benefitted him, and Weisselberg will also be charged for the tax fraud that didn’t benefit him but over which he was in charge anyway.

What I don’t understand is this. Before the indictment was revealed, some well-informed people had assumed that all the fringe benefits — the free tuition, the free car, the free apartment, the free tips — were on top of Weisselberg’s compensation. But they weren’t. The indictment reveals that from 2011 to 2018, Weisselberg’s compensation remained fixed at $940,000, with $540,000 in base and $400,000 in bonuses that could be paid via one or another of these slushy tax dodges.

[andydp]

Eric Trump, EVP of the Trump Organization, had something to say:

Eric Trump gets pilloried after giving away the game about the Trump Org indictment on live TV

Speaking with Fox News, Eric Trump made a number of incriminating remarks that led many to believe that his father's company is actually guilty of doing what it has been accused of. At one point during his appearance on Fox News, Eric criticized the Manhattan District Attorney's Office

He even went a step further by weighing in on the alleged scheme the company is accused of. He dismissed the allegations describing the alleged kickbacks as nothing more than "employment perks." But that's conceding exactly the point at issue: The DA argues that the Trump Organization paid Weisselberg using these "perks" — such as renting him an apartment in New York City — to compensate him and avoid paying taxes. That's a crime, and calling the non-salary benefits "employment perks" doesn't reduce culpability. It confirms the prosecutors' account of events.


www.rawstory.com/eric-trump-2653646462/?fbclid=IwAR05Tu9Ykq-31GTv9U3eOQdUwBF0Un8qklFtkDNEFw20oYVJFkkb8rAeM7k

[indy]

Jul 3, 2021 16:35:53 GMT goldenvalley said:

Take a look at emptywheel's assessment of the charges against Weisselberg.

Thus far I get how this is supposed to work: Weisselberg has thus far been charged only for the tax fraud that benefitted him. If he doesn’t cooperate, his kid will be charged for the tax fraud that benefitted him, and Weisselberg will also be charged for the tax fraud that didn’t benefit him but over which he was in charge anyway.

What I don’t understand is this. Before the indictment was revealed, some well-informed people had assumed that all the fringe benefits — the free tuition, the free car, the free apartment, the free tips — were on top of Weisselberg’s compensation. But they weren’t. The indictment reveals that from 2011 to 2018, Weisselberg’s compensation remained fixed at $940,000, with $540,000 in base and $400,000 in bonuses that could be paid via one or another of these slushy tax dodges.

Hmmmm... she puts in this update:

Update: This piece from Jennifer Taub is one of the most helpful pieces I’ve seen on why this was valuable for Trump.

It’s easy to see what was in it for Weisselberg and the employees getting the equivalent of tax-free income. But how would Trump and his businesses benefit from these give-a-ways? It’s a way to give employees higher pay at a lower cost to the company. Here’s a simple, but not precise example for a New York employee. If the company pays an extra $100,000 in cash compensation the net pay for that extra is around $72,000 after withholding and payroll taxes. Then the employee can use that money to pay expenses like private school tuition or car leases. But, if instead, the company directly pays $72,000 worth of the employee’s school and car expenses off-the-books, and the employee and company hide that, it only costs the company the $72,000 (which it can still finagle a deduction as some kind of business expense).

But that first sentence of Taub's quote makes no sense in the context of this example. She is claiming that Weisselberg is getting $72,000 in either scenario. If Trump paid $100,000 in direct compensation, Weisselberg would get $72,000 after taxes. If Trump gave him $72,000 in 'perks', then Weisselberg still only got $72,000. In this second scenario, Trump would have pocketed the entirety of the tax savings, and Weisselberg got nothing. There was no benefit to him either way.

On the other hand, I suppose it's possible that instead of paying Weisselberg $100,000 in direct compensation, Trump gave him something like $86,000 in perks. Then Weisselberg got $86,000 instead of $72,000 and Trump paid $86,000 instead of $100,000 and they each benefited to the tune of $14,000.

I'd sure like to see the entries in the books.

It's still pretty bizarre to me that somebody making 1 million a year would engage in an illegal conspiracy among multiple people (which amplifies the risk considerably), complete with record keeping, that netted him such inconsequential amounts. This still seems like one piece in a larger puzzle.

[jackd]

I think the picture the larger puzzle reveals is that Trump's MO is to chisel in whatever way he can find available. His contractors are quite familiar with the attitude.

[goldenvalley]

Jul 4, 2021 11:24:08 GMT indy said:

Jul 3, 2021 16:35:53 GMT goldenvalley said:

Take a look at emptywheel's assessment of the charges against Weisselberg.

Hmmmm... she puts in this update:

It's still pretty bizarre to me that somebody making 1 million a year would engage in an illegal conspiracy among multiple people (which amplifies the risk considerably), complete with record keeping, that netted him such inconsequential amounts. This still seems like one piece in a larger puzzle.

Outsmarting the government is reward enough?  And knowing how much the government lost added to the satisfaction or proved to Mr Trump that Weisselberg was doing what he was expected to do.  

[indy]

Jul 4, 2021 15:47:08 GMT jackd said:

I think the picture the larger puzzle reveals is that Trump's MO is to chisel in whatever way he can find available. His contractors are quite familiar with the attitude.

Certainly we all know that Trump is somebody who would be interested in ANY con, large or small. He'd take candy from children and probably has. He thinks he's bullet proof so any stray dollar he can cheat somebody out of, he does. I don't think it matters to him if the victim is a small child or uncle sam. I'm not at all questioning his participation (unless he isn't getting anything concrete out of it, then I would). He does enough of this penny ante stuff that after awhile it adds up to real money.

It's Weisselberg's motivation that is intriguing to me.

[indy]

Jul 4, 2021 15:53:02 GMT goldenvalley said:

Jul 4, 2021 11:24:08 GMT indy said:

Hmmmm... she puts in this update:

It's still pretty bizarre to me that somebody making 1 million a year would engage in an illegal conspiracy among multiple people (which amplifies the risk considerably), complete with record keeping, that netted him such inconsequential amounts. This still seems like one piece in a larger puzzle.

Outsmarting the government is reward enough?  And knowing how much the government lost added to the satisfaction or proved to Mr Trump that Weisselberg was doing what he was expected to do.  

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't think Weisselberg would cheat on his taxes because I do. There are gray areas (lots of them!) where you can reasonably cheat and have a defensible position if you are caught. As an accountant he certainly knows this. The thing where he got out of local NYC taxes for example. He could go to court over that and he might lose and he would pay the penalties and the tax but he almost certainly wouldn't be charged criminally because intent would have been very hard to prove.  The same goes for the Keogh retirement stuff. He could claim he consulted for these companies apart from his regular duties, and therefore they paid him in 1099 form. Again, he may lose and pay for it monetarily but he won't be charged criminally. The first one requires nobody else's participation and the second one doesn't require a secret bookkeeping trail and has a plausible cover story.

But the pattern of what they did and the way they did it makes it perfectly clear it was a conspiracy among multiple people and further they knew it was illegal. It was just stupid for a little extra gain.

[LFC]

Looks like Trump's criminal defense could end up being about as competently run as his election challenges. There's video if you can stomach it.

Acyn
@acyn

“I know more about taxes than any human being that god ever created”

Acyn
@acyn

Here’s the two clips together. He went from knowing more about taxes than anyone ever to “I don’t even know. Does anyone know the answer to that stuff?”

[Deleted]

[LFC]

Weisselberg has been removed from a number of sensitive positions in the organization. It will be interesting to see how far they unplug him.

Dropped Like A Hot Potato
The indicted Trump Organization has jettisoned the indicted Allen Weisselberg from leadership positions in dozens of the company’s subsidiaries.

• There’s no indication yet that Weisselberg has been removed as chief financial officer of the Trump Org itself.

• Weisselberg is no longer listed as treasurer, director, vice president and secretary by the Trump Payroll Corp. on Florida Department of State business records, according to the Wall Street Journal.

• Weisselberg is expected to remain at the Trump family business in some capacity, the Wall Street Journal reports.

• Weisselberg’s removal as officer for the subsidiaries follows his termination as a director of Trump’s golf club in Scotland.

[LFC]

There are more details on the $25,000 bribe Trump sent then Florida AG Pam Bondi to drop the lawsuit against the fraudulent Trump University. The excuses given are shown to be obvious lies, not that it will result in any legal action. Once again the politically corrupt get away with it.

Much has been written about the suspicious timing of Trump’s 2013 gift to the Florida attorney general’s political campaign. But contrary to previous claims from Trump’s presidential campaign and company executives, new records acquired by The Daily Beast show that Trump Organization employees were explicitly told this was a donation to a political group, and emails show that Trump’s own executive assistant had met in person with Bondi’s finance director in New York City.

In its 2018 case against the Trump Foundation, the New York attorney general noted how Trump broke the law by using his charity to fund Bondi’s political group. And the charity was ultimately dissolved after a state judge found Trump had “breached his fiduciary duty” to the charity in other ways, behavior that the AG’s office called a “shocking pattern of illegality.”

The donation occurred just as Bondi was supposed to be considering joining New York’s investigation of the Trump University scam. And Trump himself got off easy. His campaign and foundation executives chalked it up to a mistake. The nonprofit didn’t realize it was a political group, the campaign told The Wall Street Journal. An ignorant company clerk hadn’t known, otherwise “we would have taken it out of [Trump’s] own personal account,” Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg told The Washington Post.

[RichTBikkies]

May 13, 2021 21:09:32 GMT LFC said:

They're still squeezing Trump's CFO.

I'd squeeze a different pair of Trump's attributes, but it would probably be unconstitutional.

[pnwguy]

Aug 28, 2021 8:37:22 GMT RichTBikkies said:

May 13, 2021 21:09:32 GMT LFC said:

They're still squeezing Trump's CFO.

I'd squeeze a different pair of Trump's attributes, but it would probably be unconstitutional.

If the MAGAts win in 2024, it will be standard treatment allowed for any of their "enemies"

[pnwguy]

More popcorn time? Or will their delay tactics work until the midterms, to keep it out of voters thoughts?

www.thedailybeast.com/trump-and-his-children-don-jr-and-ivanka-refuse-to-be-deposed-in-new-york-tax-dodging-investigation

[goldenvalley]

Jan 3, 2022 18:18:40 GMT pnwguy said:

More popcorn time? Or will their delay tactics work until the midterms, to keep it out of voters thoughts?

www.thedailybeast.com/trump-and-his-children-don-jr-and-ivanka-refuse-to-be-deposed-in-new-york-tax-dodging-investigation

The hardcore will never be swayed.  The mushy part might say all successful business people bend the rules a bit and this investigation is politically motivated. 

[Traveler]

Jul 9, 2021 12:02:45 GMT @Deleted said:

Who did we lose?  

[jackd]

For what it's worth, that's how they got Capone.